Replacement Irons for Wooden Planes

[DuncanA]

I've been struggling with a back-iron on one of my wooden planes, somewhere in it's life it's picked up a skew so that one side is over 1/16 in. further back from the blade edge than the other, and it tends to pinch shavings and clog. My current efforts (though my lack of experience and courage to change too much may be at part to blame here) have done little to improve things. The blade itself (S. Ashton, Sheffield) seem very good, I know there's room for improvement in my sharpening but I can get it taking nice shavings even from end grain, and it holds the edge well.

I'm starting to wonder if it might be easier to just replace it (just the back-iron probably). I've also got a couple of other planes that could be perfectly usable if they had a new double-iron set. While I can find replacement irons and back-irons for bailey style planes I can't find anything similar for woodies.

Is it possible to get replacement irons for old wooden planes, or does it cause trouble with the taper of the wedge etc.? Presumably they must be available for the few hobbyists and craftsmen who still make wooden planes.

Or is it easier just to try and get a whole new plane? I'm also looking for a new iron for a metal no.4 but a new iron could cost £40+ when I can probably pick up another complete vintage no.4 in good condition for under £20 - I expect the situation will be similar for wooden planes. Though regarding woodies it seems a shame to give up on an old tool that has so much life potentially to give but for one weak link.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Three possibilities.

1) A bit or work with a file may sort out the errant cap-iron. They're not made of toolsteel - the old ones are probably wrought iron - so filing them won't be hard work. Just take your time with the job, and check the fit of cap-iron to iron frequently. (I'd say this is the best bet, frankly, especially if the iron is a good 'un.)

2) Many of the good secondhand dealers have a stock of 'bits' they don't bother to put on the website, so a phone call or two may well yield something.

3) Ebay is also a pretty good source of double irons, single irons and bits.

If you replace the double iron, you may have to slightly adjust the bedding of iron to plane, or the fit of the wedge to the cap-iron. The first is probably best done with a sharp paring chisel and care, the latter can be done with a card scraper.

 

[Jacob]

Old woodies are as cheap as chips. Just buy another (or several). £2 to £5 max.
Don't be hasty - there is some junk out there on ebay - e.g. blades offered though worn right down to a few mm from the slot etc. Past it.

 

[JohnPW]

I would also file the back iron square.

As for newly made replacement irons for old wooden planes, that would defeat the point of old wooden planes for me, which is that they are cheap (99p to a few pounds, plus P&P if you can't collect in person) and plentiful and can be made to work even in neglected/abused condition. There is at least one current UK wooden plane maker who offer spare irons but they are single irons, not double, priced from £27 to £35.

Hang on for a bit and after you've aquired a few more planes, you will invaribly end up with some planes with the wooden body in bad condition and some planes with a knackered blade. Then you can swap them around.

 

[JohnPW]

I see replacement iron are available for the German Ulmia and ECE wooden planes, 26 to 36 Euros + P&P.

http://fine-tools.com/hobele.htm

 

[MIGNAL]

I once had an old cap iron from a wooden Plane that was a terrible fit. One side of the seated edge was above the blade by about 1 mm. That's a huge amount as far as these things go. I had to file the underside so that it would properly seat along the full width. Doing so gave it a skew, which meant filing the upper surface to get it square again. Thankfully they take to a file and it doesn't take very long.

 

[AndyT]

If you do want to buy new old stock irons for a wooden plane G&M Tools list plenty on their website and on eBay.
I also suggest a phone call to Bristol Design, Perry Road, Bristol who have loads but don't sell on line.
Tool Bazaar would be a few hundred miles closer and may also be able to help.

 

[rafezetter]

I still have a woodie blade (by a good maker nooitgegadt - or something swedish) and cap iron available for £10 plus postage (what I paid for it) with lots of life and I've fixed most of it's age related issues.

Also willing to swap if you have something i might like.

 

[bugbear]

I've been struggling with a back-iron on one of my wooden planes, somewhere in it's life it's picked up a skew so that one side is over 1/16 in. further back from the blade edge than the other, and it tends to pinch shavings and clog. My current efforts (though my lack of experience and courage to change too much may be at part to blame here) have done little to improve things. The blade itself (S. Ashton, Sheffield) seem very good, I know there's room for improvement in my sharpening but I can get it taking nice shavings even from end grain, and it holds the edge well.

I'm starting to wonder if it might be easier to just replace it (just the back-iron probably). I've also got a couple of other planes that could be perfectly usable if they had a new double-iron set. While I can find replacement irons and back-irons for bailey style planes I can't find anything similar for woodies.

Is it possible to get replacement irons for old wooden planes, or does it cause trouble with the taper of the wedge etc.? Presumably they must be available for the few hobbyists and craftsmen who still make wooden planes.

Or is it easier just to try and get a whole new plane? I'm also looking for a new iron for a metal no.4 but a new iron could cost £40+ when I can probably pick up another complete vintage no.4 in good condition for under £20 - I expect the situation will be similar for wooden planes. Though regarding woodies it seems a shame to give up on an old tool that has so much life potentially to give but for one weak link.

Can you put up a photo of your blade and cap? It's possible that you may just have a tuning issue we can help with.

If you get a new blade and/or cap, that will need fettling to fit too, so you can't avoid it, I'm afraid.

BugBear

 

[Corneel]

I still have a woodie blade (by a good maker nooitgegadt - or something swedish)

Nooitgedagt. It's Dutch, not Swedish :lol:

Good stuff until around WW II. Later they started to make the usual thin blades with cheap capirons made from quite soft steel. But the early ones with laminated blades are very good.

 

[DuncanA]

Thanks for the help chaps. I hadn't realised the back-iron was soft enough to be shaped with a file, I've been slowly going at it with an oilstone. I think I'll give it a try with a file before I take more drastic action.

Tool Bazaar would be a few hundred miles closer and may also be able to help.

Thanks, Andy, for bringing this one to my attention. I'll be working in Perth on Friday so I might need to see if I can find time to make a quick detour. Looks like it has the potential to be a handy (or wallet-hurting) little gold mine!

Can you put up a photo of your blade and cap? It's possible that you may just have a tuning issue we can help with.

If you get a new blade and/or cap, that will need fettling to fit too, so you can't avoid it, I'm afraid.

BugBear

Apologies for the lack of focus in the second picture, even with Macro on the camera wanted to focus on the trees behind - but the picture shows the main fault with the back-iron, the light coming through. It's the left corner (in the first picture) where the back-iron is in contact with the blade, which surprises me, I'd have thought the edge of the back-iron further away from the edge would be where the gap would occur, as is would be working up the curve of the iron.

I think if I can file it square across first, then I should be able to then focus on getting it evenly seated. But any opinions from more experienced hands would be much appreciated!

 

[Richard T]

I think you're on the right track there Duncan. File it square, then work on the underside until the far end of it makes straight - across contact with the iron ( checking up to the light as you have been) and work on the top/front 'chip breaking' area last.
I'd recommend a large, smooth, single cut file for the underside to get a nice straight fit then curve the top over toward the edge so as not to create another gap at the front.

 

[bugbear]

Can you put up a photo of your blade and cap? It's possible that you may just have a tuning issue we can help with.

If you get a new blade and/or cap, that will need fettling to fit too, so you can't avoid it, I'm afraid.

BugBear

The picture explains everything. The cap iron is twisted, and someone has tried to fix this by filing away the "touch point". They filed away enough that you were left with the skew.

The answer (remember the cap iron is soft) is to just twist it the other way. Stick it in a vice, and use the biggest stilson or adjustable spanner you own.

THEN tweak the fit with a file.

BugBear

 

[MIGNAL]

No need for a new chipbreaker. There looks to be plenty of metal to go at. Just take things slowly and keep checking the fit.

 

[rafezetter]

I still have a woodie blade (by a good maker nooitgegadt - or something swedish)

Nooitgedagt. It's Dutch, not Swedish :lol:

Good stuff until around WW II. Later they started to make the usual thin blades with cheap capirons made from quite soft steel. But the early ones with laminated blades are very good.

Heh I was close on the spelling anyway. Well this thing is... 5mm thick at the blade end, and the cap iron is close to 4mm thick. It definitely looks hand forged going by the way it's not even actually flat, in the normal sense anyway. From the slot to the blade it's as flat as I can get it with paper, but the rest has sections where I can only surmise hammer strokes took it thinner than other parts of the blade, not majorly, but enough that to flatout the top would take some doing, and regrinding the blade edge square took hours and hours.

This thing is SOLID!

 

[Corneel]

That sounds like a good one. I have several Nooitgedagt planes, because they almost had a monopoly for decades on the Dutch planemarket. Plenty of them around.

 

[DuncanA]

The picture explains everything. The cap iron is twisted, and someone has tried to fix this by filing away the "touch point". They filed away enough that you were left with the skew.

The answer (remember the cap iron is soft) is to just twist it the other way. Stick it in a vice, and use the biggest stilson or adjustable spanner you own.

THEN tweak the fit with a file.

BugBear

This makes perfect sense, I'd never thought before now that it could have been twisted. I'll try and do as you describe and hopefully get it back to good working order.

Thanks for all the input everybody.

 

[jimi43]

Try to fix it and if all else fails can you post the width and I will see if I have one in my orphan drawer.

You're welcome to it if I have one that will fit.

Jimi

 

[DuncanA]

Thanks for the offer of irons Jimi and Rafezetter, I spent some time working on my current back-iron over the weekend and I think I have things under control with the current one.

The back-iron now sits neatly on the cutting iron without any gap (and it no longer rocks - it obviously was twisted when I realised that) - this was fixed with slight twisting and filing as suggested. The plane still has a tendency to clog but I suspect this is due to the overly steep angle I've left on the back-iron after filing it square, causing it to roll the shavings over on themselves in the tight part of the mouth. Things are, at least, no longer getting caught between the back- and cutting-iron.

Next time I'm down in my workshop I'll try to reduce the angle and round it over a bit and see how that works. The shavings aren't clogging in the corners, so I don't think it's a problem with the wedge, and I'd have said the size of the mouth seems reasonable.

 

[jimi43]

Glad to see you've almost certainly got it sorted.

Jimi