Record vice, age and quality

[mathias]

Hello,

I thought I finally found a nice old good quality Record 52 1/2 vice here in France so I bought it yesterday. Looking closer I start to wonder how good it really is, by that I mean is the quality close to the old ones that seems to last forever.

Are there Record vices made in England by Irwin Record where "Irwin" is not mentioned?
Are all "Made in England" Record vices good quality or was there a downward slope in the production?
When do you think the one in the photo was made (it does not have a cover for the screw)?

 

[RogerP]

I can't date yours but the earliest have a domed end to the screw, as this one.

 

[AndyT]

Are there Record vices made in England by Irwin Record where "Irwin" is not mentioned? - I don't think so - Irwin was an American brand, so I think putting the two names together dates to after the end of English production.

Are all "Made in England" Record vices good quality or was there a downward slope in the production? As far as I know, they were all good.

When do you think the one in the photo was made (it does not have a cover for the screw)? Judging from what was said in other similar threads and in a useful photo set on Flickr, the 1960s.

Have a look at these similar threads for some more info:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/dating-this-record-vice-t93195.html
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/record-vice-history-t68453.html

 

[mathias]

Thanks Andy,

I've been searching here as much as I could and already found those two threads. None of the Flicker linked photos correspond 100%.

This one is close (https://www.flickr.com/photos/35604059@ ... otostream/) but doesn't have the "ED" letters on the front and if you look at the other end of the vice (https://www.flickr.com/photos/35604059@ ... otostream/), the endplate is not at all the same.Mine is more like the older ones. The photos seems to have been taken 2010 and the text say "currrent model" so I guess mine is a little older

Here (https://www.flickr.com/photos/35604059@N03/4651251550/) the text state 1960-1990s and the vices are supposed to have a cover over the screw which mine doesn't have so I guess mine is made later.

 

[Shrubby]

I wouldnt't worry. It looks the same age as both of my record 52s. Be glad you found an original Sheffield made one rather than the Jiangsu-swordfish stuff Irwin is trying to sell now
Matt

 

[mathias]

Good to hear, thank you. It will make it more easier and more fun when I remove rust from the rods

 

[custard]

I'm no authority on Record vices but I believe Roger's right in that earlier ones had a tulip bulb boss. I don't know that they're any better made, but they're not half pretty!

This one's going on a second bench for the workshop that I'll be building next year, it'll be a Nicholson bench so to my eye at least anything other than a Record 52 1/2 would be cause for regret.

 

[mathias]

I like the look of that one, nicer then the more square ones.

Mine cleaned up nicely, degreaced and the I used some fine steel wool to remove rust.The screw and half nut seems tobe in good condition.

The vice will be in a heated dry room all the time. What kind of grease do you recommend to use?

 

[mathias]

I managed to re-find what I thought I had seen. AndyT spoke about dry PTFE used for bike chains. WIll this be good for all moving parts, even the screw/half nut?

 

[memzey]

That's what I use on my record vice. The brand I use is called GT85. It's meant for bikers to apply on their chains as normal wet lubes will attract dirt and grit. I've found it works well in a number of woodworking applications including the vice and the gibs on my dimension saw.

 

[AndyT]

It works for me. If you have a bike, you need to lube the chain and the modern ptfe based lubes are way better than ordinary oil.
So once you have some dry lube in the workshop it makes sense to use it anywhere else that you want to avoid dust and dirt sticking.

 

[mathias]

I'm in the planning phase of attaching the vice and found this:

"Depth of clamping and jaw width can be adjusted and extended when using metal vise by adding suitable wooden facings, e.g. The Record 52.1/2 has an un-hindered jaw opening of 13"/330mm and jaw width of 9"/230mm (Extendible to 18"/450mm using wooden facings), whilst the existing jaw depth (4"/100mm) can be adjusted up to a maximum of 8"/200mm by slinging the vise lower on the bench frame, with facings extended upward to run in unison with the bench top." (bench-vise-vice-choices-t61907-15.html)

Is this official Record information or based on user experience?

 

[ED65]

Is this official Record information or based on user experience?

Might be a bit of both, over time they may have gotten feedback on what worked fine IRL and what over-stressed the mechanism, although I can't imagine it was common to fit a 52 1/2 with jaws wider than 18" and taller than 8" :shock:

 

[AndyT]

Mine is only extended to about 16 x 4 1/2 and has been big enough for what I make but 18 x 8 looks feasible. The extra depth could partly hang below the bars but would be helpful for holding a vertical board.

 

[bridger]

I like the look of that one, nicer then the more square ones.

Mine cleaned up nicely, degreaced and the I used some fine steel wool to remove rust.The screw and half nut seems tobe in good condition.

The vice will be in a heated dry room all the time. What kind of grease do you recommend to use?

a homebrew lube for plain (sliding and screws) bearings for woodworking applications where sawdust is a factor is as follows:


in a small diameter but tall-ish glass jar with a tight fitting lid put a couple of tablespoons of paste wax (caranauba)- maybe 1/2" deep.
add to that the contents of a tube of graphite powder, or enough to thicken the paste wax. add to that a few drops at a time of turpentine, mixing until achieving a smooth creamy consistency. find a small brush that fits into the jar. shorten the handle if necessary. store with the cap tight. add turps as necessary to maintain consistency.

this will resemble black grease, but it dries on the screw or sliding parts. it lasts well, doesn't attract sawdust and with the brush is easy to apply precisely where needed and not where not needed. a little goes a long way, and the amount described here will last for years.

 

[lord snooty]

Regarding age of these vices I have a 52E which I acquired when the joinery works section of the building firm I worked for was cleared out in about 1966. The joinery works had not been operational during my employment which started in 1963 so my vice must be at least pre 1962/3.

It has served me faithfully for over 50 years and following a recent clean up shows no sign of being anywhere near the end of its working life.

The various letters following the 52 seem to be related to changes in the design over the years and I assume that the addition of the D on mathias' vice indicates it has a dog built in. Mine does not.

 

[dannyr]

Go for it -- fit and use this excellent vice - I doubt you'll wear it out.
I have two Parkinson's Perfects (the predecessor to the Record) first version - fitted and working well - only thing needing replacing was a small spring which I sourced from a broken (dropped on the floor when being moved) Record - fits perfectly.
These Parkys must be over 100 years old and possibly up to 140 years - probably in use for most of their lives.
The advice on lube looks good, but don't worry too much.
Danny