Record 044 Plough Plane Question

[city17]

Hi all, got a question about the Record 044 Plough Plane. I'd like to buy one, but here in the Netherlands there's only one available on our local eBay equivalent, and it's only got one cutter.

However I found out that there are actually sellers on eBay.co.uk shipping to the Netherlands, but the ones currently on are not that cheap or not complete.

So I was wondering, how often Record 044s (or maybe 050 if there's a good deal) pop up on the UK eBay. Is it worth waiting for a good deal, or are those rare and should I just expect to pay £70-90+?

 

[Droogs]

I think the 405 is a better buy, it has a much larger iron collection that comes with it and mine cost around £60 about 3 year ago

 

[Bod]

I have a 044, wouldn't be without it!
Don't buy one if the blade clamp is missing, unless you can make a new one.
Blades are unique to this plane, although 044C blades are similar to 055/405.
A machineshop should be able to make a set, either in imperial or metric sizes, but probably better to wait for a set, which will be imperial sizes.
To my hand the 055 does not have the balance in use that the 044 has, but has the knickers for cross-grain work.

Bod

 

[Bm101]

Just for info. You can get replacement irons made by Ray Iles for the 044.
https://www.oldtoolstore.co.uk/eight-cu ... -196-p.asp

 

[thetyreman]

Just for info. You can get replacement irons made by Ray Iles for the 044.
https://www.oldtoolstore.co.uk/eight-cu ... -196-p.asp

+1 I bought mine with no blades for a LOT cheaper than normal, and the ray isles ones are superb, I've not used original record blades but they are really good.

I found that the sole wasn't flat on mine and need a bit of work, once that was done it has been plain sailing or should I say plane grooving....gets coat

 

[samhay]

Rapier did a clone of the 044.
The quality is decent and you can get them for a reasonable price in the UK.
The cutters are, as far as I know, interchangeable with the record.
e.g. https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/164156324014?c ... 4156324014

 

[Bm101]

Just for info. You can get replacement irons made by Ray Iles for the 044.
https://www.oldtoolstore.co.uk/eight-cu ... -196-p.asp

+1 I bought mine with no blades for a LOT cheaper than normal, and the ray isles ones are superb, I've not used original record blades but they are really good.

I found that the sole wasn't flat on mine and need a bit of work, once that was done it has been plain sailing or should I say plane grooving....gets coat

I have a couple of the slightly thicker Ray Iles replacements in my 3 (rarely used tbh) and 5 (first plane I pick up). They are excellent. Don't want to sidetrack the thread but I do like the irons. Just another limited endorsement on the quality of Iles stuff.

 

[Vann]

I think the 405 is a better buy, it has a much larger iron collection that comes with it and mine cost around £60 about 3 year ago

Unless you're considering shapes other than flat bottomed grooves, I'd suggest you get the simplest plane that will do the job i.e. the 044 (or even the 043). Those 50s, 45s and 405s can be a hassle to setup and use - and the 55s are worse.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Droogs]

@Vann ???

The 405 comes with 26 different irons including a hell of a lot of straight edges and astragals for sashes and quite a fewer other shapes and then of course it also has an additional/optional 13 hollows and rounds. It has threaded adjusters for the blade and you can use different length rods for the fece to help with almost any depth from the edge. It takes about a day to learn to set up and use. you can take waffer thin mints or hog off pulled pork with it if you want.

 

[AndyT]

Quite. Don't lump the 405 in with the 55. The 405 is well thought out and well made. The 55 is a set of compromises to make a tool with the theoretical capacity to do jobs nobody needs to do.

Don't assume that you will find the hollow and round bases though - but if you want H&R, you can get wooden ones much cheaper, which will be far easier to use.

 

[Vann]

Quite. Don't lump the 405 in with the 55...

I did (well almost). But I bow to your greater knowledge and experience.

Funny, I've always used my 043 for ploughing. Never even considered the 45 (= 405) for the job.

Cheers Vann.

 

[city17]

Thanks very much for the replies, everyone. The 405 looks quite good too, but it seems to be way more expensive (as in 2-3 times as much as the 044). The 043 seems slightly small, the 044 looks a bit more comfortable to use.

Good to know the new cutters are good, only downside is they are imperial not metric. But I guess most sizes aren't too far off. Anyone have experience how useful the imperial ones are for e.g. fitting plywood bottoms in drawer grooves? (Assuming you use metric plywood in the UK, might be wrong there?)

I'll just keep on the lookout for the 044 on eBay, and maybe a 405 or 50 if there's a really good deal to be found.

 

[AndyT]

Don't get too bothered about metric or imperial irons. Plywood sizes are only ever nominal - if you buy 9mm ply it will be somewhere between 7 and 8.5mm, in my experience.
So you may need to widen a groove, or even grind a cutter to width.

I bought my over large selection of plough planes a few years ago so haven't been looking on eBay much lately. But I expect pickings are thin as the big tool auctions and boot fairs aren't happening at present.

 

[AndyT]

One further thought, if you are undecided between the 044 and the 050.

The 044 is really only meant for ploughing grooves. Like a wooden plough plane, it has only a single skate, which is over to the right hand side of the cutter, not central, not adjustable.

The 050 added a second skate. This makes it more practical for wider grooves or rebates, as there is less tendency to tilt the plane over.

The 050 can also cut beads and tongue and groove, if you want that.

 

[Dovetaildave]

City17,
I own a few the larger versions referred to here but not a 43 or 44, and I wholeheartedly agree with all the technical pros and cons, that has been said regarding, knickers/spurs for crossgrain work. Flat bottomed grooves, or if working on shaped moulding work etc.

Two points I don't think were mentioned;

Comfort in use. A good shaped handle to hold on to be it plastic, wood or metal, a few hours fiddling and setting up and finally using will be felt.

Space to store it/them. If you trade up for the next model/function, you'll quickly have two, three or four boxes that will need to be stored.

Which has to give me the opportunity brings me onto Sir Roy, my all time favourite TV Hand woodworker, (i'll never forget you Norm) :
Selection and use; https://www.pbs.org/video/woodwrights-s ... on-planes/
Storage; https://www.pbs.org/video/woodwrights-s ... ooved-box/

Regards,
Dave

PS I don't own a pretty 55 :wink:

 

[city17]

Actually managed to buy a Record 050 on eBay today for £50, complete and including 15 cutters. In good condition as well. Will take a while to ship to NL, but looking forward to using it!

 

[AndyT]

Excellent. Don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions.

 

[Jarno]

I am in the Netherlands as well, and bought my 044 (actually 2 of them) on eBay UK. It is worth to wait and fine one which is in good nick and not too expensive. Prices do seem to rise and it appears that offerings from sellers willing to ship abroad are more expensive. So it might make sense to find one early and discuss shipping abroad from a seller which hasn't indicated so in the auction. Note that because of tightening restrictions on the eBay site (because they want you to use their GSP shipping), this might get you in a bit of hot water.

As mentioned I have two Record 044's and like them a lot, I also have a Stanley 50 which is reserved for beading. I am looking for a Record 043 but I think the ones available now are too expensive. Ditto with the Record 405, they are nice, but expect to pay upwards of 150GBP for one with most of the cutters and accessories, without shipping.

Still, I rather buy on eBay that on Marktplaats (the local craigslist/gumtree equivalent in NL) because those guys are in it for the money and usually those tools are not as nice and/or more expensive.

My 2cents....

 

[RAF]

Kennen jullie dit?

https://www.ducotools.nl/?page_id=7

Ik heb daar een mooie 5 en een kwart gekocht voor drie tientjes.

 

[Droogs]

you could keep an eye out on the German Ebay local website, i tend to find Ulmia tools available there fairly often as opposed to almost never on the usual site