Really useful brace to identify

[AndyT]

Seeing as we seem to be on a roll with threads about various ways of making holes, here's another one!

It's my latest eBay purchase. The seller just described it as an old brace, with no mention of a maker's name, but I found out what it was before I lashed out £2.99 +p&p, so let's see who can name the maker first.

Here it is:

There are some distinctive features. The chuck is something I'd not seen before. It was a little rusty and dirty when I got it

but soon cleaned up - the rust was only superficial and everything now moves smoothly

The chuck is simple and seems very strong. It grips square taper bits of course, but is also good on round bits

What's really nice is that it will hold the larger size square taper found on things like the large size expansive bit I was having trouble holding over in this thread.

The other obvious oddity is the way that the ratchet works. There are two little catches, which each operate on a pawl which bears against the ratchet wheel. It's compact, robust and in good working order.

The handle has a nice hardwood grip, held between pewter rings

and the knob is a similar dark wood - could it be cocobolo?

It has a 10" swing so is suitable for larger size holes. What do you reckon it is? Has anyone else got one? Rhyolith maybe?

 

[Rhyolith]

I don't actually own many braces as there does not seem to be much variation in the design, making them less fun to discover. This however is a bit different... I want one

Edit: Thought it looked familiar, have seen these on eBay before. Here is another with more info: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antique-Hand- ... SwNuxXY934

Heres the description from that listing:

PS&W made some of the finest hand braces ever made - the fact that 100+ years or more after most of them were made, the mechanisms are still smooth & work well is testament to the quality engineering of the company, these bolt action 102's were first made in the 1880s & were last seen in the 1911 catalogue.
This brace is over 100 years old & will outperform just about any modern handbrace, they are just amazing & way ahead of their time.
This is a quality brace, heavy duty chuck & frame, pin lever ratchet mechanism, ball bearing rear pad handle with oiling port, & rosewood / cocobolo handles that have the most lovely warm patina.
An extremely handy tool, great for boring large diameter holes & excellent for driving screws in with a slotted tip bit, the leverage you can get with a brace is amazing.
Great for boring large diameter holes, never has a flat battery or need to run a lead out, very handy indeed.
Weight - 1.3kg
The ruler in the photos is for a size comparison only, not for sale.

I must admit that chuck looks good... I find the conventional ones annoying in many regards (not giving back bits etc), so this is going on my wanted list next to the North Bros No.2101.

 

[AndyT]

Rhyolith, you are the winner! Peck Stowe and Wilcox is the answer.

I expect that ebay seller found his info in George's Basement, like I did, here http://www.georgesbasement.com/braces/P ... braces.htm

a source of much useful info, where you can see what is behind the patent date shown on the ratchet.

 

[bugbear]

...but I found out what it was before I lashed out £2.99 +p&p...

Gentlemen, we have a winner!!

BugBear

 

[AndyT]

That's the power of eBay - sometimes it IS worth browsing through lots of listings to find the gems.

 

[ED65]

Nice buy Andy! I'm definitely on the same page as Rhyolith, I want one of these now.

I'm under a promise not to get another brace so I don't know how I'll justify it following me home but as they say it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission :-"

 

[custard]

Blimey, that looks like a handy tool.

The wood is definitely Rosewood by the way, furthermore it's of a quality that's all but unobtainable today. The wood at the top of this photo is old growth Indian Rosewood, the stuff that was almost certainly used for your brace. The wood at the bottom is Sonokoling Rosewood, pretty much the best you can buy today, it's the same species but plantation grown in Indonesia where the different climate and soil conditions result in a timber that is less dense, paler, less finely grained, lighter, less lustrous, and generally a lot less desirable...ho hum!

 

[AndyT]

Thanks Custard, that makes it even nicer and explains why I didn't recognise it!

 

[AES]

Andy, that's a really great find. The chuck and ratchet mechanism look really different - I'm certainly not a collector but I do have a few hand tools, including a Stanley brace (from the '80's, but PLASTIC handle and rear pad - NOT very nice), but overall the tool is useful for gently turning big stuff, but as someone has already said, the chuck can sometimes refuse to release bits, both square and round ended.

If as someone has said, the basic mechanism design is over 100 years old I wonder how come both the chuck and the "bolt action" ratchet/reverser have got lost along the way - I'm certainly no expert but I've never seen a chuck or ratchet like that before.

Thanks for posting - not that I'll ever see one like that to buy myself

AES

 

[BearTricks]

I had this one in my eBay watch list. Missed it by about 10 minutes though.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

 

[AndyT]

I had this one in my eBay watch list. Missed it by about 10 minutes though.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

Sorry, you can have the next one!
I wonder if you would have outbid me though...

 

[BearTricks]

I probably wouldn't have. I'm the kind of eBay user that tries to get way over the odds for anything I sell, but outright refuses to buy anything for what it's actually worth.

I got an old no-name brace from the local antiques warehouse today for pennies. I thought that the mechanism is so basic that anything that looks well made should do the job. Only one stall had auger bits though, at a quid each. Though they look to be very good quality ones.

Not to hijack the thread, but is there a way that I can Heath Robinson sharpening an auger bit without a dedicated auger file? I have a number of standard files, some Robert Sorby diamond files meant for carving chisels and gouges, and some saw files.

 

[AndyT]

I've not got a special auger file but have successfully sharpened plenty of bits with needle files. I have a set of four needle file size diamond files and they are really good too. I suppose you could add tape to one side of a file to stop it cutting where it shouldn't but I've not found that necessary.

 

[bugbear]

I've not got a special auger file but have successfully sharpened plenty of bits with needle files. I have a set of four needle file size diamond files and they are really good too. I suppose you could add tape to one side of a file to stop it cutting where it shouldn't but I've not found that necessary.

Once you understand the cutting action, sharpening auger bits is a little fiddly, but not technically too hard (apart from the small ones...)

The main thing is knowing enough to avoid buying ones that have been irreversibly damaged by previous "I know what I'm doing me" sharpeners.

(especially any filing on the outside of the knicker nearly as bad as morons back-bevelling scissors or shears)

BugBear

 

[Vann]

...so let's see who can name the maker first.

I was going to ask if Borringgeoff was allowed to play. But Rhyolith posted an answer before Geoff would have even got out of bed.

I've not seen that ratchet before. I have at least one brace with that chuck, but don't think it's a PS&W (not that I'm a brace expert).

Cheers, Vann.

 

[ED65]

Not to hijack the thread, but is there a way that I can Heath Robinson sharpening an auger bit without a dedicated auger file? I have a number of standard files, some Robert Sorby diamond files meant for carving chisels and gouges, and some saw files.

Any needle file or warding file that's small enough to get in there will do the job perfectly well. I bet most people today sharpening augers aren't using an auger file since they're so thin on the ground.

Having a safe edge isn't absolutely vital if you're slow and careful but if your file doesn't have one and you'd like it it's easy to grind one edge smooth on the grinder.

 

[Vann]

Here's another with that chuck, just been listed over here.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/antiques-colle ... 459468.htm

It a John S Fray I think.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[AndyT]

Vann, if I was thinking of buying that, I'd check with the seller first - it looks like the vitally important inner part with the two gripping jaws is missing. On mine, there's nothing to stop you unscrewing it all the way and losing it - George Langford says that later models added a retaining screw.

 

[Vann]

Vann, if I was thinking of buying that, I'd check with the seller first - it looks like the vitally important inner part with the two gripping jaws is missing...

Hi Andy. I wasn't thinking of bidding (not even at $1), as I have more 10" braces than you can shake a stick at

I think (from memory) those chucks are called "Universal" chucks (at least by Stanley).

Here are my two...

Top one is an 8" Stanley No.917; lower one is a 10" Pexto No.7010.

I've got nothing that comes close to that ratchet mechanism though.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Boringgeoff]

Vann, the chuck you are referring to as a Fray is frequently mistakenly so identified. It is in fact the patent of an employee of the Stanley Rule and Level Co, Joseph P Bartholomew (US Pat' 904501 Nov' 14 1908). You are right that the unit you linked to on trademe was made by John Fray but it would have been after their being taken over by Stanley.
You are quite correct, also, that I would still be tucked up in my bed while the Northeners are chatting about this boring subject. Understandable since we West Aussies are, at 10 hours, getting about 7 hours less daylight than the Northeners currently. I suspect that you in NZ would be getting even less.
I have attached a photo of the next ratchet selector that you need to look for Andy.

It's the earlier model of your fine example which was patented by Casper Reising and assigned to the PS&W Co on Dec' 30 1884. (US Pat 309876) Your chuck is by Obed Peck and was patented nearly 30 years earlier than Bartholomew's example on Feb' 11 1879 (US Pat 212110)
I hope I haven't bored you too much.
Cheers,
Geoff.