Quick question regarding the Rob Cosman IBC irons

[markturner]

Hi, I just took delivery of one of these for one an old Type 15 number 4 bailey I just restored. No problem adjusting the throat to fit, however, I find that the Iron was at the absolute limit of adjustment ( IE the top of the circular cutout in the blade was resting up against the locating screw that secures the cap iron to the frog) when I fitted it and that to get it protrude through the sole, I had to slide the chipbreaker a bit further back up the iron, leaving approx 1.5mm of blade showing as opposed to the .5 of a mm or so I normally leave for a finely set smoothing plane. So it works as it is, but as soon as I need to grind the iron, I am going to start running out of adjustment room. I don't really see this as a problem, as to be honest, the amount of planing that I do, and the number of planes I have got, I don't imagine ever having to actually grind the bevels again. But I was curious as to why the iron did not go in at the other end of the adjustment scale, giving you some slack. I hope I have explained this clearly enough...

I am wondering if I have it set up right, as I would have thought, especially with the addition of the two little tabs, that it should have been a bit less near to max range of movement than it currently is, if I want to move the chipbreaker forward, to ensure the finest shavings, it will mean the iron wont come through the sole enough.


Edit thinking about it, the iron / chipbreaker relationship will remain the same no matter how much you grind away, as it will just slide down the groove in the chipbreaker....

Cheers Mark

 

[Mike Wingate]

I have found this on 2 of my planes. I filed 1.5mm off the base of the frog. Perfect, so much more range of adjustment, but a pain to work out, easy to do, twice once on a 5 and again on a 3 for a QS combo. If only the chipbreaker was longer! The Rob Cosman set makes my short fettled no.5 a terrific tool!

 

[LuptonM]

I would have thought that the limiting feature is the lateral adjustment 'thingy' that fits in the chip breaker.

 

[Fat ferret]

I would have thought that the limiting feature is the lateral adjustment 'thingy' that fits in the chip breaker.

I believe the thingy is a yoke but I may be wrong.

 

[Mike Wingate]

The standard yokes are fine in both the no.5 with the Cosman and it's extension ears. The no.3 is good with the standard yoke. I had thought of getting a QS yoke for the 3 and extended a spare with a peg of turned steel, LIQUID WELDed to the cast iron. I found that on the no.3 it did not work any better than the original.

 

[markturner]

I guess the other thing I could do would be to get the hole in the chipbreaker enlarged by my friendly local metalworker....

I just wondered if other users of this combo had come across the issue....

Cheers, Mark

 

[GazPal]

I would have thought that the limiting feature is the lateral adjustment 'thingy' that fits in the chip breaker.

I believe the thingy is a yoke but I may be wrong.

The yoke is part of the depth adjustment set-up, whilst the lateral adjustment lever is what it is. Thingy or not. :wink:

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One common limiting factor is the depth adjustment slot location in the capping iron. It's position is relative to the length of blade bed on a plane's frog and you'll often find examples of mis-matching problems where a cap iron is offered up to a frog on an older plane or one by another maker. Two potential solutions are to either exchange the cap iron/frog or adjust the slot position or yoke, but IMHO I'd hesitate in shortening the blade bed (By filing the frog base), as this makes for an irreversable adaptation unless using a spare frog.

Perhaps a marginally longer cap iron could be offered for situations where final fitting would be best adopted instead of expecting a straight exchange of parts?

Has anyone taken measurements or made comparisons between original and replacement cap iron adjuster slot positions on planes of varying make and vintage? I know Stanley and Record cap irons tend to be interchangeable (Same/similar blade bed size on their frogs), but others may differ slightly.

Having said all of that, the use of a thicker blade should make it possible to retract the cap iron a little further from the cutting edge.

 

[Jacob]

It says on RCs site: Exclusively designed Chipbreaker Blade Adjustment Tabs allow this thicker, premium set to function in antique planes. Includes instructions for minor modifications to the plane’s mouth that may be required to accommodate this blade. Complete information for reviving your hand plane is available on "The Great Hand Plane Revival DVD With Rob Cosman" (sold separately).
If it is not possible to fit the thing as per the blurb above then I'd ask for your money back. Unfortunately for more detailed instructions you have to buy the DVD! Hmm!!
Basically why bother at all? The benefits if any will be marginal. In any case there are plenty of replacement blades which will fit directly. Or just buy a better plane?

 

[Mike Wingate]

I have set up all my planes to be as square, as flat and to work mechanically well as possible. adding a thicker chipbreaker to a hollow ground and ceramic honed blade made them perform better. The Cosman blade is in a league of its own. You can tell the difference in use and under a microscope. Better, and it keeps its edge for so much longer between honing. The Quangsheng blades are good, but as with the RC combo, something other than widening the mouth had to be done.(remove cast iron from the base of the frog with a total of about 20 file strokes.) The Axminster Smoothcut Laminated Japanese blades with a QS chipbreaker are great and fit the planes without any adjustment. My cosman equiped short No5 in my sloping shooting board is a joy to use.

 

[GazPal]

The thing is, not everyone is willing to go the extra step of adjusting more than a plane's mouth when fitting a fresh iron and especially so if there's a chance they'll have to move onto altering more of their planes physical characteristics via shortening blade beds, etc.. Such adjustments render a plane unusable - unless they invest in a fresh frog - if someone wishes to revert to original parts.

Provide a marginally longer cap iron - which can be shortened - and much of the problem can be resolved more simply and without having to move into the field of toolmaking.

 

[markturner]

If it is not possible to fit the thing as per the blurb above then I'd ask for your money back. Unfortunately for more detailed instructions you have to buy the DVD! Hmm!!
Basically why bother at all? The benefits if any will be marginal. In any case there are plenty of replacement blades which will fit directly. Or just buy a better plane?

Hi Jacob - Firstly,the thing does fit as per the blurb, but I am not sure if I have it set up right, hence asking for some advice from other users of said product.

Secondly, "why bother" ??? Because they give better results for me. I buy old Bailey planes and restore them for pleasure and try and use them all. About 60% of them ( The very nicest ones) I always bung in a replacement iron & chipbreaker. The ones that don't get the new iron combo, I always sharpen up so they take good shavings ( I am a sharpening novice, but seem to get good results using an eclipse guide, wet and dry for the heavy work and then scary sharp film). However, the difference in performance between the plane using the old irons and the modern replacements ( I have got a mixture of Hocks, cliftons and IBC) is very noticeably better than the old irons. Also, the plane looks nicer, feels nicer and it gives me me pleasure to do, after all, its my hobby...

Thirdly I do have plenty of "better" planes, I have LN, Calvert Stevens and Veritas in the collection. To be honest, I don't notice any better performance from these to the old baileys I have fettled and put a decent modern iron in. But I am no expert.

Cheers, Mark

 

[Mike Wingate]

I did not buy the DVD. Does it contain a magic wand? The name of this forum is UKWorkshop. Surely that means we have the means to adjust and make to our hearts desire.

 

[robcosman]

IBC changed the postion of the yoke slot in the back iron several months ago. While the original worked on most planes the new verison works in all of them. The solution was to pull the back iron about 1/8 back from the cutting edge, this would give you back the missing adjusment in the adjuster knob. The blade is so thick (0.140") it would work fine even without a back iron. As to wether or not the combo kit makes a difference I bow to Mr Charlesworth, read what he has said or wait for him to get better and ask him yourself. Cheers
Rob
ps The dvd was given free with the blade combo for the first year it was on the market. It is designed to help those needing help, seems to have done the job based on the feedback i have recieved.

 

[markturner]

Hi Rob, that's great to know, and kind of gratifying to me to realise that I have figured out the solution by myself! Love the product and will shortly be ordering another for a number 3 that is currently being worked on,

Cheers, Mark

 

[bugbear]

I did not buy the DVD. Does it contain a magic wand? The name of this forum is UKWorkshop. Surely that means we have the means to adjust and make to our hearts desire.

The DVD is a general and comprehensive plane tuning one. It is about far more than fitting the IBC blade.

Other plane tuning information is available

BugBear