Purple heart

[Roxie]

Could you please give some advice on suitable/best finish on a purple heart jewellery box I am making?

Thank you

John

 

[ED65]

Suitable: anything.

Best: ask 10 woodworkers get a dozen opinions!

What do you want it to look like? If you like a close-to-the wood look and feel then any oil finish is ideal for this, which includes straight BLO (slow) or tung (very slow), commercial or homemade Danish oil or teak oil (faster) and wiping varnish (faster).

If you'd prefer more of a polish then shellac, varnish and lacquer will all work. You may want to fill the grain if using any of these since this gives the best gloss; there are a host of things people use for this including epoxies, oil-based and water-based grain fillers, sanding slurry, plaster and the clear finish itself.

Since this is a jewellery box and they don't generally need loads of protection a really quick option that can give a fairly respectable sheen is a couple of coats of sanding sealer with a light sand between, followed by two coats of paste wax and a good buff. I have to say this can look pretty amazing for a finishing routine that takes just one afternoon, but handling soon dulls it down a bit so I think it's best for purely decorative items that spend most of their lives sitting on a shelf being admired.

 

[CHJ]

Since this is a jewellery box and they don't generally need loads of protection a really quick option that can give a fairly respectable sheen is a couple of coats of sanding sealer with a light sand between, followed by two coats of paste wax and a good buff. I have to say this can look pretty amazing for a finishing option that takes just one afternoon, but handling soon dulls it down a bit so I think it's best for purely decorative items that spend most of their lives sitting on a shelf being admired.

The main problem with most paste wax blends is that the Beeswax component melts at hand temperature, hence why it dulls with handling, as ED65 says for something just sat on the shelf most of the time paste wax is good for years.

If you substitue Microcrystalline paste wax instead of a Beeswax based product over a simple cellulose sanding sealer the handling caveat disappears, remember to apply Microcrystalline wax sparingly for best results.
Although lathe orientated this Sanding sealer demo is equaly applicable to hand or mop buffing and polishing, just use mycrocrystaline wax to protect.

 

[sunnybob]

simplest of all if youre just starting out and unsure is wipe on poly.
Use an OIL based poly, clear, satin, matt. gloss, whatever you fancy. Dilute 50/50 with white spirit. Wipe it on with a lint free rag, wipe the excess off with another piece of rag, and put it out of dusty air for 24 hours.
Then a very gentle wipe over with 0000 wire wool, wipe off the dust, and apply a second coat. You can give as many as you like. i normally do 3.

I found it so easy to use it when I started that i now use it for almost everything I make.

 

[custard]

Could you please give some advice on suitable/best finish on a purple heart jewellery box I am making?

Will your box be lined, for example with suede or felt?

What kind of finish do you want, gloss, satin, matt?

Will your box have any exposed metalwork, such as hinges or escutcheon?

Is your box robust enough to stand up to heavy burnishing?

 

[Roxie]

Thank you for replies which I now realise was rather an open ended question, but I have never used purple heart before and wondered if there were finishes I should avoid.
Custard. I intend to use narrow strap hinges, no lock so therefore no escutcheons. What do mean by heavy burnishing?

John

 

[custard]

Thank you for replies which I now realise was rather an open ended question, but I have never used purple heart before and wondered if there were finishes I should avoid.
Custard. I intend to use narrow strap hinges, no lock so therefore no escutcheons. What do mean by heavy burnishing?

I'm walking through the same thought process that I take when I'm deciding how to finish my own boxes.

For example, when I make jewellery boxes I always line them, normally with suede, like this,

Lining materials and finishes don't mix very well, but you still want the inside edges of the box and lid to be finished or it all looks a bit amateur. So if lined you need to follow certain steps in a certain sequence, and it rules out some finishes.

If the box isn't lined then you may choose to finish both the inside and the outside, in which case you'd avoid oil based finishes as they smell rancid in an enclosed space.

Metal fittings may be relevant because some finishes, like most waxes, are slightly acidic and can tarnish metal fittings over time. One exception is microcrystalline wax, which isn't acidic so can be applied over metal without problems. Incidentally, paste wax would be a mistake as the box would soon be covered in fingerprints, you'd need a traditional hard wax with a high percentage of carnauba.

Regarding burnishing, some finishes benefit from heavy rubbing or burnishing. But jewellery boxes are often quite delicate and not suited to the kind of vigorous physical rubbing that burnishing entails, or they may have vulnerable inlay which can easily be snagged by a cloth and torn out.

Purpleheart is a fairly open grained timber, roughly similar to say Ash. It's easy to get a satin finish, but mirror gloss will require grain filling, and depending upon the design of the box that may be troublesome.

There's no such thing as the one ideal finish for a box. I've finished boxes with sprayed nitro-cellulose, Osmo, rubbed varnish, french polish, and lots of other methods besides. They all have strengths and weaknesses, but the more information you provide then the better the advice you'll receive.

 

[Roxie]

Thank you Custard. Once again you have supplied a detailed answer which I am grateful. I have only just started on preparation of the wood so it is in its early stages.

John

 

[custard]

I have only just started on preparation of the wood so it is in its early stages.

With time on your side it's worth reading through this,

hard-carnauba-wax-vs-alfie-shine-vs-paste-wax-t112414.html

Good luck with your box, and don't hesitate to ask if you need any advice for its construction.

 

[Roxie]

Thank you for your offer of help Custard which I will take advantage of.

After preparing the purple heart I knew it would be brownish, but how long before it turns purple again? I would imagine that I should not put any finish on the surfaces so as to let the light get to it.
Sorry if it appears that I am asking obvious questions, but never having worked this wood before and it is a steep learning curve.

John

 

[sunnybob]

Purpleheart fades with exposure to bright sunlight. It wont go purple again.

 

[ED65]

John, if you choose to use varnish as your finish I wanted to second sunnybob's recommendation of converting it to wiping varnish. This is a complete game-changer in terms of the quality of finish us mere mortals can achieve from varnish without any real difficulty If I didn't have the option to spray this is the only way I'd apply varnish any more, it's just so much more forgiving and I thank the day I was introduced to it.

In addition to the consistency of result it tends to give reliable, short, drying to boot which is no bad thing in our climate.

I have a few minor differences to Bob's recommendations though which I'll post if you decide you want to go this route.

 

[sunnybob]

ED... if you have any alternative suggestions, please share them. I do NOT consider myself the expert on wipe on. I learnt it from the internet and would be happy to hear anything that might improve on what I do.

 

[Roxie]

Ed. I have just an article on the interweb written in the Practical Woodworker and found an eye opener. I will try it on another box I have just made and see how I get on. The advice in the article seems to pointing towards making your own "wipe on" by thinning polyuathane varnish 50/50 with white spirit, correct?
John

 

[sunnybob]

Roxie, yes, thats what I've been doing on all my boxes these last 4 four years.
But it only works with OIL BASED. Dont try water based, its a hell of a mess :roll: :roll:
check them out on the link in my signature.

 

[ED65]

Ed. I have just an article on the interweb written in the Practical Woodworker and found an eye opener. I will try it on another box I have just made and see how I get on.

I think you'll like it, almost everyone does. I've read from a few people that it made them love varnish for the first time in their lives

A couple of basic points in case they didn't cover them in the article, because this is a straight varnish product can leave excess on the surface if you want and it will eventually dry hard just as the unthinned varnish does. So you can wipe off all the excess, remove most of the excess with a dry brush, or wipe it on and leave it. I almost exclusively use the first option though as it's the only way I can be sure of getting repeatable results; try the others for yourself and see how it works where you are. If you can leave more on the surface and still get good drying, and a surface you like, then definitely do that as you'll build the finish much faster that way.

Just because it's called wiping varnish it doesn't have to be wiped on. You can apply it very efficiently with a brush or roller, but of course those have to be cleaned afterwards.

While there are better and worse thinning ratios for various purposes you don't have to worry about overthinning any varnish and undermining it. Clear finishes are not like paint, it's not possible to over-thin them and literally any amount of solvent can be added. What this means in practical terms is if you splash too much white spirit into the jar and the tin of varnish is empty there's no need to panic

I'm sure Practical Woodworker will have added a safety note, that finish-soaked cloth or paper towels are a fire hazard if left bunched up. Lay them out flat to dry until stiff, or stuff in a big jar with some water in it and screw the cap on.

The advice in the article seems to pointing towards making your own "wipe on" by thinning polyuathane varnish 50/50 with white spirit, correct?

Yes 50/50 (1:1) is a fairly standard recommendation for making your own. It's said to be the equivalent of commercial wiping varnishes, although those are sure to vary just as Danish oils do.

I think making your own is sensible since you know exactly what is in it, you pay less for it (substantially in some cases since what is in the tin is mostly white spirit!), you can mix it to your preference (not as decided by nameless bod in the finish lab with accountants breathing down his neck) and rarely mentioned, you can vary it for the season if needed; because I work in unheated parts of the house I will regularly use a thinner mix during the winter to help ensure a coat will dry enough in 24 hours for the next coat, while I'll use a more standard mix when drying conditions are better because it builds a finish faster.

What I was going to add previously, but didn't want to load up the thread with unnecessarily if you had no interest, was in the way of variations.

First, it's well worth your time trying different dilution ratios on test pieces or on less critical stuff. A 1:1 mix with white spirit is the ideal starting point, but the original consistency of the varnish you buy determines what dilution will get you to the thinness you prefer to work with and the effect each coat adds. Bob Flexner suggests starting with 1:2 or 1:3 spirits to varnish and working from there and some people do find they prefer slightly thinner and some slightly thicker, you need to find your own perfect sweet spot between too dilute and the original consistency.

Second, I would recommend starting out with gloss varnish only, this is for multiple reasons but mainly because you can lower the sheen of any gloss finish after it has dried to any level you want very easily (and it can be raised back up again if you decide you have gone too far). The beauty of this is you only need to keep one version of the varnish on the shelf, not two or three.

Thirdly, you only need to denib after the first coat if your drying conditions are good and there's little dust in the air, so if possible don't rub down after the second or any subsequent coats. You will sometimes find that even wiping off carefully that sometimes the surface dries with more texture than you want and then you have to rub down to get the smoothest result. With good prep of the wood and appropriate rubbing down between coats you can achieve a truly glass-like shine if that's what you want, without needing to use any polishing mediums or high-end sandpapers.

 

[sunnybob]

I would also add that not all oil varnishes are the same. Buy a small tin, if you cant get good results (you should), try another make.
I've had mostly success, but two manufacturers varnish just would not work for me even with varying the white spirit quantity.
I've found a really good one now, but no point telling you because its a greek manufacturer.
Workshop temp plays a big part as ed said. My normal day temp now is very high 30's and the varnish dries as fast as superglue, even with the white spirit. So i have to put everything in the fridge over night and then do it very quickly in the a.m. before it heats up again. At around 10c it runs as smooth as water.

 

[Roxie]

Thank you Ed & Bob very informative. The problem I am having currently is finding spirit varnish, all the big sheds seem to offer is water based.

John

 

[sunnybob]

going green has its costs, doesnt it? #-o #-o :roll:
Try some of this lot
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_no ... yurethane+

Notice the price of the winwax wipe on :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
Thats why we make our own. 8) 8)

 

[Alexam]

As it happens, I am presently trying to get some more purpleheart timber. However, I now finish all my boxes with Tru-Oil. Wipe it on after the box has been sanded and sealed and usually 3 coats will give a superb finish, but the more you do the higher the gloss and always lightly sand with 400grit between coats.