Project - Powerfeeders. Project for someone else that is...

[TRITON]

I'm doing a bit of work on the router table last night, and am using diy featherboards, but those arent the best and what I really need is a small powerfeeder.

As we all know, a powerfeeder does what the title implies and feeds stock through a saw, moulder or surfacer, applying downward pressure while at the same time eliminating the chances of accidents occurring involving blades and fingers(never a good combo)
Unfortunately I've not the time to really spend designing one, so this project is aimed at anyone who would like to take eon such a project.
Probably need some sort of cad or drawing program to help the design, although thats not a must and its quite basic when you think of what it is for, how it works and the elements needed.

I was thinking of it for use on the router table(or saw,planer etc) as one of the big probs when moulding is preventing vibration as the stock passes over the cutter, which we all know can leave a horrible lumpy finish thats either got to be sanded off, or run through multiple times, maybe increasing a tiny fraction in the hope you can clean them up.
A small powerfeed will apply significant downward pressure, which will mostly stop the vibration, but more importantly keep fingers away from the cutter area.
As you increase downward and sideways pressure with your hands or fingers, it make putting the board through more difficult,even on a smooth cast iron polished table, which itself can lead to accidents.
Most dont have cast iron tabled moulders or router tables and theres more of a chance there that the friction will make the job all the harder, and of course increase risks.

So who wants to take on such a job,thing or so ?. Not for me, im not looking for someone to make me something, but i likely will take advantage of their design.(Not just being lazy, i reckon this is a good idea that would benefit everyone.
I'd think you'd need some sort of small 12v motor, 2,probably 3 rubber covered wheels(Castors) plus some way of interconnecting all the wheels so they turn in unison. Likely mounted on a small constructed box, oh and something to mount it to the machine or fence. Doesnt have to be mounted on an articulated arm, probably just mounted directly to the fence over the cutting area would suffice, held with a couple of clamps so it can be positioned to apply more or less pressure or dependent on the thickness of the stock going through.

 

[Terrytpot]

Only attempt I recall seeing was this one by Mathias:
https://woodgears.ca/machinery/power_feeder.html

 

[Jameshow]

Would a wheel chair motor suffice?

Plenty of torque, fairly low speed, and quite heavy to grip the timber.

12v and cheap too.

Cheers James

 

[Mrs C]

Would the jessem stock guides help?

 

[Inspector]

These small power feeders have been around for a couple decades at least, sold by various people and are about the right size for a router table. POWER FEEDER 1/8HP VARIABLE SPEED CSA CXP01 This is one tool accessory I would buy rather than make but each to their own.

Pete

 

[TRITON]

The CXP01 is proper kit, but alas its $450 more than I'd be spending I like the Mathias version, that looks a much better idea, and drill powered so you can take it off and store it just like any jig. Thanks for the vid, i'll take a look at that later, and anything else that gets linked to it.

 

[Jelly]

Would a wheel chair motor suffice?

Plenty of torque, fairly low speed, and quite heavy to grip the timber.

12v and cheap too.

Cheers James

It would almost certainly work, and speed control would be simpler (and cheaper) than anything which used an induction motor.


You'd still need to build a suitably rigid carriage with at least two undriven rollers to prevent snipe at the ends of boards, and a mechanism which varied the pressure applied and attached it to an overarm support...

Maybe a used rear shock from a mountain bike could be used to do that without making too many custom assemblies, otherwise a spring preloaded against a nut would be simple enough.

The commercial models do that individually for each roller, but I suspect simply doing it for the whole carriage would be good enough



You might get adequate results just using a wheelchair motor mounted rigidly and driving a slightly under-inflated pneumatic tyre, but without the additional rollers it wouldn't perform quite as well without very careful positioning.

 

[Inspector]

Not sure about the wheelchair motor thing. Those Stephan Hawking types have better things to do than let you perch them up on a router table.
Pete

 

[Sandyn]

If I was doing a design like this, I would just design something to apply high pressure and feed it manually. Adding power feed is less important to the end requirement and adds a lot of complication, such as getting drive to the power wheels, getting grip and makes the design larger.

 

[Jacob]

......
As you increase downward and sideways pressure with your hands or fingers, it make putting the board through more difficult,even on a smooth cast iron polished table, which itself can lead to accidents.
.....

I'd have a look at the 2 push-sticks principle first. There is absolutely no need to have your fingers near the cutter at any point. And feather boards.
But yes power feed could be good - for repetitive projects as they tend to take time to set up. Basic principle seems to be 2 in-feed and one out-feed roller, turned slightly towards the fence to give sideways pressure too.

 

[TRITON]

2 push sticks arent going to provide enough downward pressure to reduce vibration as a board travels across a panel raising bit. The principle of them is simply to push the board through, past the cutter/blade etc They are there for safety and nothing more.
Vibration is the problem especially with the bigger cutters, and thats always been the issue with router tables or spindle moulders.
Feather boards are fine, but they can give so much downward/sideways pressure that the friction of the board on the table and fence can make it hard to easily push through, and you want that operation to be smooth and not jerky, nor do you want it to stall or stop as burning will occur, especially on hardwood which contains oils or resins

A powered unit provides the motion for it, and allows the timber to glide through uninterrupted. It provides a variable feed speed, plus downward pressure so the board goes through without stopping at a steady but more importantly constant rate. Too fast can make the cutter chip out the timber beyond the parameters of the mould, too slow can lead to burning, but the main problems are vibration(as well as burning).

A powerfeed does everything. It holds it tight to the table, but is adjustable so you can sent it through minimizing vibration, and is constant so it eliminates stalls and sticks so burning/case hardening doesnt occur, and to all that you can add safety, but safety while there isnt the real point of it, that is consistency.

 

[bourbon]

What about the top bit of a lunchbox thicknesser? no Idea if it's worth breaking one as there seems to be a world wide shortage of them

 

[Jacob]

2 push sticks arent going to provide enough downward pressure to reduce vibration as a board travels across a panel raising bit. The principle of them is simply to push the board through, past the cutter/blade etc They are there for safety and nothing more.
Vibration is the problem especially with the bigger cutters, and thats always been the issue with router tables or spindle moulders.
Feather boards are fine, but they can give so much downward/sideways pressure that the friction of the board on the table and fence can make it hard to easily push through, and you want that operation to be smooth and not jerky, nor do you want it to stall or stop as burning will occur, especially on hardwood which contains oils or resins

A powered unit provides the motion for it, and allows the timber to glide through uninterrupted. It provides a variable feed speed, plus downward pressure so the board goes through without stopping at a steady but more importantly constant rate. Too fast can make the cutter chip out the timber beyond the parameters of the mould, too slow can lead to burning, but the main problems are vibration(as well as burning).

A powerfeed does everything. It holds it tight to the table, but is adjustable so you can sent it through minimizing vibration, and is constant so it eliminates stalls and sticks so burning/case hardening doesnt occur, and to all that you can add safety, but safety while there isnt the real point of it, that is consistency.

I've used a power feed for hundreds hours on a spindle and I agree with you about how good they are - been saying it for years!
But I haven't got one at the moment and so feed by hand, via shaw guards, feather boards, push sticks, as necessary. No problem at all just not as perfect as a power feed, except it saves setting up time if you are just doing a little job.
Have to say I've never used a router table. Maybe they are just the wrong tool for the job?

 

[Jelly]

Have to say I've never used a router table. Maybe they are just the wrong tool for the job?

From a machining standpoint they aren't particularly well suited to cutting substantial mouldings, and almost everything they're routinely used for can be done better with a spindle moulder, (usually removing material faster whilst using substantially less power per unit volume of material removed)...

But:
- The tooling is somewhat cheaper (unless you grind your own spindle cutters which is a whole other ball-game),

- They can have a much smaller footprint and weight making them more easily moved,

- They are available from many more places, for a much lower purchase cost,

And (crucially),

- They just don't have the same fearsome reputation which spindles do (I'm not sure this is entirely justifiable when you compare the risks of a properly guarded spindle with modern blocks fitted and a powerful dedicated router table, but perception of reality is as important as reality itself).

Consequently it's quite a popular compromise option; but even good ones are a compromise from a mechanical standpoint... Wouldn't be my choice, but I can absolutely see why they are so numerous.

 

[TRITON]

Maybe they are just the wrong tool for the job?

I cant afford a spindlemoulder

But the premis is to prevent the vibration from causing bumps as it goes and i do find that a lot on router tables and also on the minimax spindle moulder we had in our old workshop.
Thankfully we eventually put a power feed on the minimax and that solved the problem. Long enough to cover in feed and out feed and apply plenty of pressure as it crossed the cutter.

This of course only my experience of the panel raising bit i was using 3 days ago. I could easily see what the problem was, what caused it and the solution presented itself based upon my experience of using both router table and industrial moulder

Ive some more to do, though this time the stock is 100x50mm lengths of maple, so the board going through is chunky and heavy and thats going to make this operation less prone to vibration. More often that not the board going through is under 25mm, and its that thin stock that i find the problem of lumpy finishes shows up worst on.

But the thread is not about how to use a router table or guard it or even featherboards etc, its about designing a powerfeed, and from the replies thus far most seem to agree the powerfeed is the way to go.

 

[Jacob]

Mines a Mini Max combi Lab 300.
Small stuff no prob , as long as it's long enough, though cunning wheezes sometimes needed.
When I had a power feed it was on a massive SCM T110.
I guess you'd need to beef up the whole router set up to be able to take the pressure from a power feed, which has to be mounted on it somehow.

 

[C64]

Have to say I've never used a router table. Maybe they are just the wrong tool for the job?

Last summer, I was using the Infinity Tools’ large colonial router bit 19-130 to make up 30-odd metres skirting boards with my DeWalt/Kreg router table and it really felt beyond what the router table should be used for. The noise and vibration was frankly ridiculous with the large, tall router bit and this was after I rebated out the waste from the profile as much as possible beforehand.

I originally eyed up the Co-Matic baby power feeder to pair up with the router table but have now scrapped that thought. I do a lot of hand tool work too and still wondering what operation (ignoring time/volume issues) I would miss out on if I ditched the router table entirely in favour of the appropriate hand tool. I can only think of working with MDF but even then I try and use that as sparingly as possible because the fine dust gets everywhere when machine routing or sawing.

 

[Jacob]

Last summer, I was using the Infinity Tools’ large colonial router bit 19-130 to make up 30-odd metres skirting boards with my DeWalt/Kreg router table and it really felt beyond what the router table should be used for. The noise and vibration was frankly ridiculous with the large, tall router bit and this was after I rebated out the waste from the profile as much as possible beforehand.

I originally eyed up the Co-Matic baby power feeder to pair up with the router table but have now scrapped that thought. I do a lot of hand tool work too and still wondering what operation (ignoring time/volume issues) I would miss out on if I ditched the router table entirely in favour of the appropriate hand tool. I can only think of working with MDF but even then I try and use that as sparingly as possible because the fine dust gets everywhere when machine routing or sawing.

I've always thought that a small hand held router is good for certain jobs but as soon as you feel the need for a big one mounted in a table you really should be looking for a spindle moulder. I make my own cutters (except for a rebate block) which makes it incredibly cheap to run and there's next to nothing I can't replicate very precisely. Currently don't have a power feed but I'm retired so don't expect to be running off 100s of glazing bars or skirtings any time soon. But it's no prob hand fed - with all the usual safety stuff in place
I bought a big cheap router (Erbauer) but find it's only useful for one job - cutting housings in staircase strings. Never used it for anything else.