Problem Neighbours, Advice Needed

[the_g_ster]

Hey All,

I live in a terraced street of houses with a mix of people but it's historically been pretty quiet and peaceful. Around a year ago a "family" moved into one of the houses and things have changed alot since.

There is a young mum with an young child and an assortment of guys in the house that seem to be somehow tied to her. The big issue is that there are now frequently massive arguments between the woman and the "men" in the house. These are not just a bit of finger wagging, the police are called, and last year I called the police as a large kitchen knife was being brandished by the woman of the house. The police are now out about every 2-3 weeks, with numerous arguments in between that they don't attend. Weekends lead to late night arguments due to drinking, and sadly I am sat here today shattered as once again 4 police officers were out last night at 2am after around 3 hours of disturbance.

Nobody in the street has approached them, as there is a genuine fear that things could turn nasty for anybody trying to intervene.

My question is what can be done about this? I know the house is privately owned and let to this woman on the back of the council. I also know that is no enviroment for a child to see either, it seems to be getting worse though hopefully nothing serious will happen.

The house is a mess, and it's keeping us up late so what avenues are open to us to explore? Can the police help, the council etc? Everybody else is great on the street, and I have spoken to only 2 other houses but I know it's an issue for them as they have had cars damaged during a prior argument but are too scared to deal with.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance, The G.

 

[TonyW]

I have the deepest sympathy for the situation you now find yourself in. In my own case having some trouble (parking related) with a neighbour close to my daughters new property.

Under the circumstances I think that it is wise that you do not approach them directly if at all possible - the police should be duty bound to help.

I do not know the answer to who can help in this situation (I am certainly not qualified to comment) but FWIW my opinion

1. The police I would think have the power to make arrest in these circumstances, threatening behaviour, antisocial behaviour, breach of the peace (and probably many more!).

2. I would also think that the Landlord should have some responsibility relating to the behaviour of tenants. Also he should be concerned about the condition of his property! While tenants have rights so does the landlord - one of which is the power of eviction under certain circumstances.

It may be worth a look on some of the web sites that deal with this sort of thing. You may find useful info there from others in the same situation.
One of them is Neighbours from Hell in Britain:
http://www.nfh.org.uk/forums/forumdispl ... rune=&f=69

Hope you find a satisfactory resolution to your problem soon

Cheers
Tony

 

[beech1948]

Just a few random thoughts about your problem.

1) If children are involved and may be threatened then an anonymous tip off to the Social Services will get action.

2) If the Council are indeed housing these people then again a tip off to the housing people as a complaint may help and a request via a councilor to get them moved has worked in the past for some but after much aggro and distress for you.

3) If the house is let to just the woman then the trhee men you mention may be illegally housed there and the landlord will be interested

4) Councils have a duty re noise disturbance and should act against a complaint.

5) Keep a record and or recordings of noise and or video if possible for future use.

6) Keep calling the police at once each disturbance gets unbearable

7) Don't tackle them yourself please as they sound too dangerous.
regards
alan

 

[Russell]

I would sit quietly and invest in some good ear plugs with regard to the noise and disturbance.

With regard to the children there should be some child welfare department of the social services who you could speak to anonymously but you may find there is nothing they can do if they don't think the child is at risk.

If you do speak to the family chances are you will be the target of future abuse.

 

[RogerM]

1) If children are involved and may be threatened then an anonymous tip off to the Social Services will get action.

3) If the house is let to just the woman then the trhee men you mention may be illegally housed there and the landlord will be interested

7) Don't tackle them yourself please as they sound too dangerous.
regards
alan

Whilst agreeing with all Alan's points, the ones I've quoted above are the key ones IMHO. In particular, any case which is a child protection issue will be of interest to Social Services. You may also wish to involve the Health Visitor but you may have to make several approaches because this is a service that is being run down and they are completely under seige at the moment. I know because my wife is a health visitor child protection superviser!

I, too, would emphasise Alan's final point (7) in view of the news over the w/e. Good luck. It's a b***** when this sort of thing in thrust on you.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Very sorry to hear of your situation.

Unfortunately there is only one answer to your predicament and that it to move. Councils and governments seem hell bent on social engineering projects, one of which is to integrate problem families with more normal neighbourhoods. If they move the problem from your road they will only put it somewhere else. It's a no-win situation really

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[woodbloke]

Much sympathy offered re the situation in your street. I would only add this to the excellent advice already offered and that is if you or any of your family feel threatened in any way then call 999 instantly and every time it happens. SWIMBO had some trouble a while back from louts and we sought advice from the police. A 999 call was their recommendation - Rob

 

[Gary]

Much sympathy offered re the situation in your street. I would only add this to the excellent advice already offered and that is if you or any of your family feel threatened in any way then call 999 instantly and every time it happens. SWIMBO had some trouble a while back from louts and we sought advice from the police. A 999 call was their recommendation - Rob

A verbal argument next door does not constitute a threat to your family and 999 is not the most suitable course of action.

There is no one answer to this problem, however the harassment act could assist you either with the Police or via a solicitor for civil harassment.

 

[TonyW]

A verbal argument next door does not constitute a threat to your family and 999 is not the most suitable course of action.

There is no one answer to this problem, however the harassment act could assist you either with the Police or via a solicitor for civil harassment.

Not sure that I fully agree with this (mind you I am no legal eagle). While a verbal argument may not constitute a threat surely there is a police responsibility if this harassment is likely to cause a breach of the peace or even worse. I would think that past history (reports to police and call outs) should support this view.

I hope this is the case as I am likely to be experiencing some problems with a neighbour near my daughter (l believe he has been violent towards his wife/partner)

Unfortunately there is only one answer to your predicament and that it to move. Councils and governments seem hell bent on social engineering projects, one of which is to integrate problem families with more normal neighbourhoods. If they move the problem from your road they will only put it somewhere else. It's a no-win situation really

Unfortunately I have to agree with your sentiments Paul. However where does it leave us all if we cannot make a stand for what is right and get the necessary protection from the people we employ to keep the peace and maintain law and order. How far should an innocent individual go to protect their rights and what are the likely consequences of any action- its a bit late if the police are called in after you have been assaulted! We have all seen cases where an individual in the act of protecting there property or rights finds themselves at the wrong end of the law.
The answer to move is not always feasible of course - although in these circumstances I would not want to live near this type of family if at all possible. But when you try move you will also need to be honest about reasons for the move in particular relating to neighbour disputes - this in turn may well put off potential purchasers.

I seem to be getting carried away so I had better stop now :evil:

 

[matt]

Just a bit of an off-the-wall suggestion; however, how about you and the neighbours try to get to know them? The effect of this could be twofold... Firstly, it may instil upon them some sense of social responsibility, particularly if, through friendly conversation, you make references to the disturbances in a helpful and supportive way (i.e. without prying). They may feel a sense of embarrassment. Secondly, it's perhaps what they need if they've been moved on from other communities.

It's a real long-shot as I know that approaching them may seem intimidating and there is the risk that you could find yourself over embroiled in their troubles.

 

[Paul Chapman]

]
Unfortunately there is only one answer to your predicament and that it to move. Councils and governments seem hell bent on social engineering projects, one of which is to integrate problem families with more normal neighbourhoods. If they move the problem from your road they will only put it somewhere else. It's a no-win situation really

Unfortunately I have to agree with your sentiments Paul. However where does it leave us all if we cannot make a stand for what is right and get the necessary protection from the people we employ to keep the peace and maintain law and order.

This type of problem is one of the reasons why I moved from my last house. I used to live in Thornton Heath. I had lived there from birth then after moving away for five years after getting married, my wife and I bought a house there where we lived for 16 years. It was a really nice place. Then the council bought up a very nice house in the cul-de-sac opposite our house and moved in a "problem" family. Then they bought another one and did the same again. Very nasty people. Then someone bought a flat in the road which they used as a brothel :shock: :shock: I even had the police in my house for several days carrying out surveillance :shock: :shock: Then burglaries and other problems started - we were done twice.

Anyway to cut a long story short, I concluded that I was fighting a losing battle. The problem, as I see it, is that the government and the council, who you would expect to turn to, to sort out these problems, are the very people who have created the problem in the first place, so what help are they going to be? All they will do is quote statistics to "prove" that it's not as bad as everyone knows it is :roll:

I decided to move. Sure it costs money and I couldn't afford it either, but it's one of the best things I ever did. When I go back to my old road now, it's like a slum and I feel quite embarrassed to say I used to live there. I usually keep my foot on the accelerator when I'm driving through.......

Hope you get it sorted g-ster - I know what you're going through.....

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Gary]

Not sure that I fully agree with this (mind you I am no legal eagle). While a verbal argument may not constitute a threat surely there is a police responsibility if this harassment is likely to cause a breach of the peace or even worse. I would think that past history (reports to police and call outs) should support this view.

An act is done or threatened to be done that harms a person or in his presence his property or is likely to cause such harm etc........... Hence a neighbours argument is not a breach of the peace to you.

 

[TonyW]

Paul, I understand your sentiments after reading your story. It is truly shameful that the people that cause these problems do not appear accountable in any way for their actions. Glad it turned out so well for you in the end.

I still believe the vast majority of people are reasonable and responsible given the chance. Matt gave an of the wall suggestion and as he said it may be a long shot but certainly worth considering

g-ster like Paul I truly hope you get it sorted out to your satisfaction.

Cheers
Tony

 

[Losos]

I decided to move. Sure it costs money and I couldn't afford it either, but it's one of the best things I ever did. When I go back to my old road now, it's like a slum and I feel quite embarrassed to say I used to live there. I usually keep my foot on the accelerator when I'm driving through.......

Yes, moving is probably best, and do it before all the other people in the street decide to move too :wink:

It's well known that some (Not all) council housing departments try to put all the troublemakers in one place. That might be the policy that is starting to be implemented by your local housing dept. There might be another similar person appearing in a house on the other side to you soon, and so on, just like Paul says, before you know it the area will be a slum and no one (Well no one with any decency) will want to live there

 

[Gary]

It's well known that some (Not all) council housing departments try to put all the troublemakers in one place. That might be the policy that is starting to be implemented by your local housing dept. There might be another similar person appearing in a house on the other side to you soon, and so on, just like Paul says, before you know it the area will be a slum and no one (Well no one with any decency) will want to live there

I thought local councils were no longer obligated to rehouse problem families. Private landlords and housing associations however are another matters. The current policy appears place them amongst decent people and they too will become decent people. Do they really belive their own policies and how many live in their road?

(Edited and toned down as the first draft could appear to be too political)

 

[woodbloke]

Much sympathy offered re the situation in your street. I would only add this to the excellent advice already offered and that is if you or any of your family feel threatened in any way then call 999 instantly and every time it happens. SWIMBO had some trouble a while back from louts and we sought advice from the police. A 999 call was their recommendation - Rob

A verbal argument next door does not constitute a threat to your family and 999 is not the most suitable course of action.

There is no one answer to this problem, however the harassment act could assist you either with the Police or via a solicitor for civil harassment.

From the original post -

These are not just a bit of finger wagging, the police are called, and last year I called the police as a large kitchen knife was being brandished by the woman of the house

I think that is what I would call threatening behaviour. The knife may or may not have been directed towards the poster, but there are sufficient grounds there I think for a 999 call :wink: - Rob

 

[Dibs-h]

It's a very hard one to advise on.

You can either ignore it and have your peace and queit and possibly your sanity removed or you can do something.

Herein lies the problem - what to do? If you put your faith in the system, it's highly probable that you will loose your sanity quicker, not to mention financial losses. If you were to complain to the council about the noise issue - if you sell the house - you will be legally obliged to inform any potential buyer of this.

If you don't, they could sue and most likely win damages.

The landlord - complaining to him might not get you a reply, especially if he is not local or a faceless entity. Although you may have a chance here - writing to landlord maybe a possibility, especially if you were to then initiate legal action against the landlord.

I'm not talking high powered lawyers here - something maybe possible in the small claims court.

Collectively the street could get together - but it appears that they have already started to divide and conquer.

OR - and this is a big or.. Bearing in mind that putting your faith in the system is most likley going to end up costing you time, sleep, money and everything else - argueing with muppets who don't give a t*ss - take the left road at the junction.

People like these (your new neighbours) usually thrive on intimidation and so forth - speaking to them in their own language (or having someone do it on your behalf) usually works impressively well.

Especially if you (or someone) speaks their dialect extremely fluently!

I'm not advising any particular action - you may infer what you wish, but I'll be damned if some low life chavtastic sh*t is going to ruin the life that I've worked damned hard to build with blood, sweat and tears.

I know some would frown on this - but in my own experience (and I know there will be others) the system is geared against Joe Bloggs. The legal system is either for the rich or those on legal aid - the middle classes are screwed. If you go and talk to them in the street - you run the risk of becoming the next headline.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't!

Hope it helps.

Dibs.

p.s. We could always have a "bash" at your house (a couple of doors down actually). Hell - even bring my own hand tools! Even cordless\petrol power tools would be welcome!

 

[Sawdust]

You could

Call the police
But unless someone has been killed or injured, they won't be able to do anything

Call the council
They won't do anything at all

Call your MP
He/she will tell you that the present government have spent more money on the problem than the previous one

Call social services
They also won't do anything

Go round and talk to your new neighbours
Can't see that working but they might beat you up and you might get some peace and quiet while you are hospital

Go round and beat the cr*p out of them
Then you will get done for assault and end up in court/prison with even worse neighbours

Move house
This is probably your only option despite of the fact that you have done nothing wrong.

The council seem to think that if they move such people close to decent people like you, then these people will learn to behave. Unfortunately there is about as much chance of that as a rat learning to use a knife and fork!

Sorry to appear so pessimistic and defeatist but if were in your shoes I would get moved as soon as possible before they move any more nice new neighbours in close to you.

Cheers
Mike

 

[Gary]

I think that is what I would call threatening behaviour. The knife may or may not have been directed towards the poster, but there are sufficient grounds there I think for a 999 call :wink: - Rob

Maybe on the occasion a knife was used yes, but remember you cannot have an offensive weapon in your place of abode.
Maybe my original thread has been misunderstood. To call 999 every time your neighbours have a verbal argument is an abuse of the system. I don't know how far your local Police Station is or how far is the furthest point of Police patrol from your home address. Remember that the Police will have a set time to respond to your 999 call.
Is it worth the safety of members of the public for the Police to travel say 20 miles at high speed through the worst traffic conditions to referee an argument.
The simple answer is NO as I cannot see the offence of arguing in your own home. imagine if your neighbours called the Police every time SWMBO disagreed with your new tool purchase.
To have maximum effect in sorting this problem you must be very selective in the use of the 999 system. Remember the boy who cried wolf.
Either take some proper advise or listen to the back room lawyers on here who think they know best.

 

[Gary]

G

Sorry to tell you this but as Dibs said. Any recorded complaints/problems with your neighbours must be disclosed when you come to sell your home and wiil effect it's value. Would you buy it knowing the real reason why the last owner moved?

Don't disclose and they find out later and you face paying financial compensation.

It's a real tough one.