Problem club members

[Lonsdale73]

Wondering if any of you have experience of and can offer some practical advice on dealing with problem members of a not-for-profit organisation?

A group I have some involvement with are having a problem with two former committee members, a mother and daughter who acted as membership secretary and treasurer respectively. Both resigned from the committee four years ago but 'agreed' to continue with managing the memberships and accounts. Since then, they have continually failed to either attend any AGM to report on either membership or the state of finances nor have they supplied any accounts. Last year, after once again failing to turn up, they both relinquished their roles entirely but still won't return any details, even basic things like who we bank with, a list of current paid up members or who hosts the website so it can be updated.

Perhaps naturally, we suspect there maybe some fraudulent activity they're keen to keep hidden and the longer they refuse to hand over any details the deeper rthis suspicion becomes. Would anyone know what action can be taken to get them to hand over the required information?

 

[AJB Temple]

Police. Misappropriation of funds.

 

[t8hants]

I agree with AJB, matters have been allowed to go on far too long.
Financial matters should never have been allowed for non committee members, but I suspect you know that.
You may fire a warning shot that unless all group property is returned immediately, both financial and administrative, you will contact the police, who may well ask you to do so before they act anyway.
What remains of your committee must act in unison, if there are any suggestions of someone 'just having a quiet word' with their friends, have nothing to do with it, all actions and decisions must be placed on record.

 

[MrTeroo]

Worth paying a solicitor to fire that warning shot. Show you mean business.

Good luck!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Depending on the nature of your club you might find one who'd work cheaply or even pro bono.

 

[LancsRick]

Costs about £30 if I remember correctly to raise a Small Claims Court proceeding, if you warn them that you'll do that and get no response then you can easily follow through.

 

[marcros]

How is the club set up- is it charitable with trustees, formally incorporated etc?

 

[Rorschach]

Do you know where they live? Personally I think I would turn up at the door and demand the documents there and then. If you send a letter that gives them chance to destroy evidence, assuming they haven't already.

 

[Lonsdale73]

Do you know where they live? Personally I think I would turn up at the door and demand the documents there and then. If you send a letter that gives them chance to destroy evidence, assuming they haven't already.

My guess is you're right and the lack of documents is because they've been destroyed. However, in this digital age, I'm sure they can be retrieved - if only we had the banking details. I'd already suggested a solicitor's letter backed by a court order . I think the former treasurer is a practising accountant so even if she knows how to cover her tracks, the potential damage a court case could do to hr professional standing and / or career options would be enough to avoid such unpleasantness.

 

[finneyb]

If it's a Registered Charity ie with the Charity Commission - ask them for advice.
If it's part of a national organisation eg a Cancer Charity let head office deal with it.

If none of the above I would use least effort to start with - a polite letter saying the committee wants to sort his out what can we do to help you provide the information etc ie be helpful. Keep a copy.

If that doesn't work, any of the above posts

Brian

 

[RogerS]

Costs about £30 if I remember correctly to raise a Small Claims Court proceeding, if you warn them that you'll do that and get no response then you can easily follow through.

But what are they going to claim for if they don't know the figures ?

 

[Alexam]

Usually, the club is responsible for appointing committee members. Should they resign, then it is up to the remaining committee to take responsibility of those duties. Failing to do so is the remaining committee members responsibility.

It does not excuse lack of documamtation of financial matters before resignation, but the Chairman holds the responsibility and action needs to be taken.

 

[Lonsdale73]

, but the Chairman holds the responsibility and action needs to be taken.

Therein lies the problem - or at least part of it. Some of them have connections going back decades. The chairman is trying to mediate as best he can and I think he still wants to believe the best of them and come to an amicable resolution without resorting to legal measures. He's essentially a decent bloke trying to appease everyone and he's never going to succeed. This has been a key part of his life for many, many years and I know some would use it as an excuse to get rid of him, not least the very people he's trying to help! It's a sad state of affairs but the very future of the association is at stake so something needs to be done soon.

 

[Keith 66]

I was involved with a club some years ago that got taken over, in all my born days i have never experienced anything like it, it was orchestrated by a small clique & it held the club back years. In the end i walked away & left them to it. It is still rumbling on years laterr.
I dont know the size of your association or club but it sounds like it has gone way too far. The rules should tell you what to do. If the chairman or Committee wont deal with it you need to get the number of members required to call an EGM & get a vote of no confidence then replace them / him. It also sounds very much as if the police should be involved. Also do you have a national governing body?

 

[morturn]

This is one of those unfortunate but all too often problems with small constituted organisations and registered charity’s. They operate with a whole lot of good will, that leaves them venerable to the bully’s, the cheats and the dishonest.

I am a director of a registered charity and am fortunate in having a commercial background in my working life. Your really have to learn to spot these people and cut them off before they cause damage, however in your case, its now a damage limitation exercise. The key is not to focus blame on the existing committee members or settle old scores, but to resolve where your money is now.

You need to convene a meeting with your remaining committee members now, and go over your constitution so your all understand what your roles and responsibilities are. The minimum you should be operating with is a Chairman, Secretary and Treasurer.

Try to resolve this amicably, but firmly. A solicitor will be happy to relive your club of its funds with no guarantee of success. Try to resolve the problem as a group and learn from the experience.

I suggest that you write to the two individuals at their respective addresses recorded delivery, instructing them to hand over all of the relevant documentation within 14 working days of the letters. Bank account details, financial statements etc. Remind these individuals that your will go to the police if you do not get a response within the agreed timescales.

Here is a link to a few guidance notes that may help: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/charities-fraud-and-financial-crime

Good luck with it.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

"A solicitor will be happy to relive your club of its funds"
maybe you could re word that?

 

[Harbo]

Are the previous Treasurer and Membership Secretary still around and contactable - they must have some idea of the figures involved.
Didn't the the accounts get audited every year?

Rod

 

[Stanleymonkey]

If someone gave up their time for an organisation - then they must have cared for that organisation / purpose.

Now they won't even tell you who the bank account is held with. You could have money waiting to be paid in, important bills to pay etc. etc. This is a damaging situation for your charity / organisation. If they won't respond to a 'We need this .... we are going to lose money, lose out on a grant ' type of request then they are being totally unreasonable. Ask firmly and then resort to a solicitor.

However, if they did once care about your cause - WHY would they now behave like this? It seems beyond petty politics. If you don't even know what bank it is - they could drain the account. Spend it all and destroy all the evidence. I would suspect fraudulent behaviour.

It is not uncommon. I coached at an athletics club, a new treasurer was needed and a parent came forward. He was close to being accepted when I learned of his fraud convictions (pre internet days). He had served a sentence so they gave him a chance - but was closely supervised.

 

[RobinBHM]

If member subs are still being paid, how is the payment made? If the ex secretary and treasurer are never present does that mean subs are paid by BACS or direct debit? -hopefully that might identify the bank account. Trouble is banks wont divulge information easily.

It is surprising theyve not been on the scene for 4 years but were somehow still managing finances.

You could run a whois on the hostname which should help trace the website host, although more difficult if through a reseller.

A diplomatic home visit seems a worthwhile chance to reclaim the clubs information. The police in theory if its criminal, but they probably havent got resources to make it happen.

Would a round robin call of members get a pretty complete list of members? I guess a new bank account is needed and a new membership list is required urgently.

 

[AJB Temple]

My original advice - call the police, was not trite. I used to be a corporate litigation lawyer in London. The last thing you need is to start paying legal fees. If you suspect theft of club funds and concealment of bank records this is potentially criminal and you should not compromise your position by engaging a solicitor and potentially turning it into a civil matter.

Short letter saying the matter is about to be placed in the hands of the police. Warn them that destruction of records will further compound criminal offence. Give them at most 48 hours to hand over all records. Be serious - report it to the police and make clear that you suspect theft.