pricing and quotes

[jasonB]

I work 8hrs a day straight through no tea breaks or those long 3hr continental lunch breaks :wink:

Regarding the finishing I would apply a coat first thing before going to site so it has a chance to dry with no other work going on in the workshop and then leave site a bit earlier to cut back and apply another coat.

As for waiting for other trades or being held up thats really chargable if you can't get on, maybe its the ex surveyor in me. Can't see why you need to charge time for delivery, you will be going to site several times to do the fit, take it with you 1hr to carry it to the van and unload at the other end would be enough

Even with these things that 5000euro works out at £4300, even at my quite high rates thats 17 days for what is a very simple L shaped dry fit kitchen including 2-3 of days work on the fronts.

J

 

[tomatwark]

Colin

I see where Jason is coming from I missed the post about you buying the ply ready cut, so I guess that the material cost will include cutting charges.

Depending on the quality of the ply there could be alot more prep work than you think ,and to get a good finish might take time, which is why I think the price is probably not far away.

Don't under price it, it sounds like one of those jobs that could turn into a right pig.

Is this the first time the architects have asked you to price and did they approach you or did you approach them?

If you have not worked for them before I would be very tempted to do a sample door to make sure you can get the finish they are wanting.

Jason is about right about the amount of days, but I have been caught in the past with jobs like this and now I am very careful to make sure that if I get it I make money and allow for problems.

If you have a problem getting the finish to work and have to wait for drying and can't get on in the workshop with anything else you are then in the situation of losing money very fast.


Tom

 

[Lons]

-what this mini?

Cheers _Dan

Just deleted that so the wife doesn't see it #-o

She's on her 3rd Mini now and I thought her current one which was listed at £21k was rediculous (I didn't pay that much BTW :wink: )

Bob

 

[colinmc8]

Depending on the quality of the ply there could be alot more prep work than you think ,and to get a good finish might take time, which is why I think the price is probably not far away.

This one of my concerns about this job, I´ll add a foto of the material they want to use as the doors etc. to me it looks like shuttering ply? I don´t have that much experience with different grade plywood. more photos can be seen here http://www.flexoarquitectura.com/index. ... ina-palma/

Is this the first time the architects have asked you to price and did they approach you or did you approach them?

Well, recently I was working with a carpenter who gives me work somtimes. As he was going on holiday he couldn´t do a job for them, make eight door frames and install the doors, also an exterior pine door which I made another post on here exterior-pine-door-design-advise-t52890.html?uid=12333 Anyway, I´m doing the frames now, and it turns out they want this kitchen done and maybe some wardrobes after. The thing is, Barcelona is a ghost town in August, so its hard to get people to do work for you.

If you have a problem getting the finish to work and have to wait for drying and can't get on in the workshop with anything else you are then in the situation of losing money very fast.

I plan on using Dulux Diamond Glaze which can be recoated after a few hours


Any Idea what kind of material this is? \/

 

[Lons]

Thanks Bob, that was quite helpful. What I mean by the comment about itemising everything down to the smallest item is I was trying to keep prices as low as possible resulting in prices way too low for a normal profit.
Now what I try to do is stand back and see the job as a whole as well as calculating the materials and labour costs. Some people would pay 15,000 for a kitchen, and I know I could do it for 10,000. This is down to maybe a company charging more for extra expenses. But if I can do the same job or better, should I charge 5,000 less?

Hi Colin

Might be different in Spain but I would be reluctant to price mainly on what I guessed the job / customer would stand though I have been known to make adjustments on gut feeling that the client might be "time hungry" (eg - stand over me with disruptive questions).

Personally, I need to know for certain I'm going to make money. That I'm offering a justifyable price for quality work and my reputation. that my prices are repeatable both to that customer and whoever else they recommend me to.

Way too expensive and you won't get the work - same if you're too cheap and you'll very quickly get a reputation for either.
Faced with an objection on cost, I never offer discount but will always give options using different materials, revised plans etc. Amazing how many times my original estimate is decided upon.

They don't offer you tea or coffee here on Spain! So I can deduct that

I built a conservatory a number of years ago and the guy (smart arse) gave me a bill for £100 for tea & coffee. I printed him a "mickey mouse" £100 note.

cheers

Bob

PS Great place, Barcelona - one of the few cities I would visit again.

 

[adidat]

if your talking bout the door, it looks like ash (veneered)

adidat

 

[Anonymous]

i would say its birch personally.

Pricing is the hardest aspect of any job.

work on 25 quid an hour for labour charge, plus 10 - 15% on materials, then a final 10% on the whole job.

3 days = £750.00
materials (buy in at 200) sell at £225.

sub total £975.00

profit 10% £97.50

job value £1072.50

then if you know your market, you adjust the price upwards to its market value, but never go lower unless you really need the work.

 

[milkman]

5u

I'd take whatever figure you've got and add 50%

That's sounds kinda extreme. This job is for an architect firm. It's not a case of asking what's your budget, they tell me what they want, exactly. That's what i need to price, can anyone give a too high or to low comment on the price 5750€

The 50% was to allow for your underestimation! : )

If a fixed price then that will tell you how long you've got to do the job based on your fixed costs. Then you can ask yourself if you can get it done that quickly.

 

[Anonymous]

btw £3950.00

 

[markturner]

I have been fitting kitchens for everyone from Bulthaup to B&Q for 12 years. The big sheds will charge a client between £2500 and £6000 for a typical fit, depending on the extent of the works involved. I would get 60% of this. This figure would nearly always include all plumbing and electrical work. A typical sized dry fit kitchen would pay approx £1500 - £2000. A good kitchen fitter should be able to earn £200 - £ 400 per day depending on skill level and equipment. Bear in mind you need to be properly qualified to touch the electrics and gas.

i would say a fair rate as you are not a professional kitchen fitter, rather a general carpenter by the sound of it, (bear in mind the pros are in and out very quick - I used to fit 3 magnet kitchens a week with 2 helpers and pro kitchen installers are usually gas safe trained and qualified electricians as well) and will therefore be slower than the boys who do it all the time, would be to start at approx £250 per day, plus all your materials. I usually mark them up by 25%. If you charging much over £3000 to fit then you will be overcharging, but good luck if you can get it. The big sheds can get away with their prices, by the security of a big name and a good back up in the event of problems.

If we make a bespoke kitchen, i usually charge approx £4 -5000 as the fit is much slower and the potential for expensive mistakes if you rush, much greater. Also, if the kitchen cost £30,000, then people will expect to pay a fair bit to get it properly installed.

The thing to watch for for is properly integrating the electrical and plumbing side of the operation so it conforms to all regulations, it is all accessible for service and installation of the appliances is easy.

Cheers, mark

 

[colinmc8]

Thanks Mark, very helpful.

 

[jasonB]

Looking at the link you posted I would say the panels under the bar are a softwood plywood but the panels above the seating may be a yellow pine veneered board as they are clear and free from knots unlike the boards under the bar.

Just one other thing have you allowed for modifying the carcases behind where you cut the chamfers as you need a plain strip behind to stop you seeing into the cabinet.

J

 

[colinmc8]

Just one other thing have you allowed for modifying the carcases behind where you cut the chamfers as you need a plain strip behind to stop you seeing into the cabinet.

Ahhh! No I hadn't thought of that, well spotted. That's the type of thing I feel I need to have a good buffer on the price I quote. It's not exactly a straightforward fit. Many may see it as that but they probably have a lot more experience than me.

 

[tomatwark]

If we make a bespoke kitchen, i usually charge approx £4 -5000 as the fit is much slower and the potential for expensive mistakes if you rush, much greater. Also, if the kitchen cost £30,000, then people will expect to pay a fair bit to get it properly installed.

Cheers, mark

Just one other thing have you allowed for modifying the carcases behind where you cut the chamfers as you need a plain strip behind to stop you seeing into the cabinet.

This is why I am saying that don't under charge it.

Although it is not a totally bespoke kitchen, it has bespoke doors, and as you will have to make them fit the units and alter the units to suit. It is not that straight forward, although easy enough to do.

I make bespoke kitchens as well as furniture and as Mark says it can be expensive if you get it wrong.

I would definately get a sample of the ply and check it is the right stuff otherwise it could be a costly mistake, it is far better to buy one sheet and check, you can always use it somewhere else if it is not the right stuff.

Tom

 

[colinmc8]

Just to let you all know, I gave the quote of 5750€ and now they would like a quote for the units included as well. So without getting too excited it seems they're ok with it.
Now I need to find a place that does 800 high base units, as I mentioned before, not easy here in August.

Thanks again for all the help, if I get the job drinks are on me!

 

[houtslager]

will that include flights out to Barcelona

K

 

[colinmc8]

Absolutely, I'll just add 200% on the units quote ccasion5: