President Elect's 'top team'

[JSW]

The problem with keyboard warriors Dan is that they rarely live in the countries they are so vociferous about and only absorb information that resonates with own political views. They are so convinced they are correct that they don't believe an alternative opinion to theirs exists even when someone like you who comes along and tells it like is.

Oh the irony

 

[danst96]

What are they?
How would developing them help the less well off unable to pay for health care and insurance? Would you channel profits to them somehow, and make them all better off?

see edited reply.

To your second part, the stronger the economy, the more ability to help fund these things without taxing mid income families to death/increase mid families ability to bear the current tax burden which many are not able to.

You will still find fault with my reply though because it doesnt fit your narrative. Im not arguing with you, im just simply putting forward the fact the government of this country is turning away from its golden egg, rather hoping and praying we will be some sort of service and finance based country while living in the US shadow rather than actually taking advantage of the simply staggering wealth creating possibility.

Its telling that Canada was strongest and experienced some of the highest GDP per capita 10 years ago when they were actually exploiting that market. Since then, especially in the last 5 years, the government has waged war against the oil and gas industries.

 

[Jacob]

see edited reply.

To your second part, the stronger the economy, the more ability to help fund these things without taxing mid income families to death/increase mid families ability to bear the current tax burden which many are not able to.

Who would be taxed instead?
How would the stronger economy benefit the less well off - how would they get their hands on the dosh?
What about the current shortfalls demanding immediate remedies, could they be deferred until the economy is "strong enough"?

....

Its telling that Canada was strongest and experienced some of the highest GDP per capita 10 years ago when they were actually exploiting that market. Since then, especially in the last 5 years, the government has waged war against the oil and gas industries.

And so they should, as the whole world is having to do! Have you really not heard of the climate crisis?

 

[RobinBHM]

I missed this.
They are both opinions, danst96's is based on lived experience that you would dismiss as anecdotal and provide an alternative based on flawed evidence. (see previous post)

his lived experience is wrong

he claims:

some of the highest taxes in the world

which is simply not true -as the evidence shows

also he claims all the problems with the Canadian economy are the fault of Trudeau........but the whole of the world has suffered post covid inflation, which is not mentioned

Your own evidence shows that personal taxation in 2022 was ranked 6th in the world. That's pretty high.

tax on labour income for Canada in OECD is at position 26th lowest
VAT taxes are at 34th in OECD

so youve not proven your point

VAT taxes are at 34th in OECD

so youve not proven your point

 

[RobinBHM]

To your second part, the stronger the economy, the more ability to help fund these things without taxing mid income families to death/increase mid families ability to bear the current tax burden which many are not able to.

that depends on wealth inequality

a strong economy doesnt help mid income families if the wealthiest own most of the assets

 

[danst96]

Who would be taxed instead? How would the stronger economy benefit the less well off?

so smaller economies benefit less well off people? You are not making any sense Jacob.

And so they should, as the whole world is having to do! Have you really not heard of the climate crisis?

missing the point again. Canada has the opportunity to supply natural resources (which are critical to humanity continuing) in a more sustainable and responsible way. Do you think precious metals and minerals are responsibly mined in countries in China and Africa? Are they regulated and done in a way that least damages the environment, doesnt take advantage of child and slave labour? Likewise for oil and gas, do you think the middle east countries give a flying fek about the environment?

you are so deluded you will find fault in literally anything i say so its an entirely pointless argument.

 

[danst96]

that depends on wealth inequality

a strong economy doesnt help mid income families if the wealthiest own most of the assets

A strong economy leaches its way down through the whole system. The wealthier get wealthier for sure but so do the less well off in a country like canada which has a more socialist economy than that of the US. As an earlier post stated, Canada back a few years had one of the lowest wealth inequality ratios. That doesnt happen in a weak economy.

I really dont get this argument against growing the economy or having a strong economy?? Its the most ridiculous argument. Please can you provide the benefits of a declining economy or a smaller economy when population growth is over 1 million people per year?

 

[Jacob]

so smaller economies benefit less well off people? You are not making any sense Jacob.

I didn't say that. Read my post again?

missing the point again. Canada has the opportunity to supply natural resources (which are critical to humanity continuing) in a more sustainable and responsible way. Do you think precious metals and minerals are responsibly mined in countries in China and Africa? Are they regulated and done in a way that least damages the environment, doesnt take advantage of child and slave labour? Likewise for oil and gas, do you think the middle east countries give a flying fek about the environment?

You mean Canada also shouldn't give a flying fek about the environment?

you are so deluded you will find fault in literally anything i say so its an entirely pointless argument.

In what way deluded?

 

[danst96]

that depends on wealth inequality

a strong economy doesnt help mid income families if the wealthiest own most of the assets

one of you said earlier that Canada had one of the lowest wealth in-equalities. How do you think that came about? Through having a rubbish economy?

 

[danst96]

I didn't say that. Read my post again?

You mean Canada also shouldn't give a flying fek about the environment?

In what way deluded?

I read your post again and your point doesnt make sense. You seem to be advocating for not growing the economy? Unless i have misunderstood.

No thats not what i said. I said Canada has the opportunity to supply the world with the needed resources in a more sustainable way. Do you think the entire world is going to stop needing those resources tomorrow? you are purposefully missing my point.

 

[Jacob]

A strong economy leaches its way down through the whole system. The wealthier get wealthier for sure but so do the less well off in a country like canada which has a more socialist economy than that of the US. As an earlier post stated, Canada back a few years had one of the lowest wealth inequality ratios. That doesnt happen in a weak economy.

I really dont get this argument against growing the economy or having a strong economy?? Its the most ridiculous argument. Please can you provide the benefits of a declining economy or a smaller economy when population growth is over 1 million people per year?

No point in growing the economy unless the wealth is also redistributed to where it is most needed. There was the childish tory "trickle down" theory, that somehow an expanding economy benefits everybody. It's nonsense, wealth trickles inexorably upwards unless there are countervailing measures - increased wages, taxation, redistribution. Or revolution if preferred!

 

[danst96]

No point in growing the economy unless the wealth is also redistributed to where it is most needed. There was the childish tory "trickle down" theory, that somehow an expanding economy benefits everybody. It's nonsense, wealth trickles inexorably upwards unless there are countervailing measures - increased wages, taxation, redistribution. Or revolution if preferred!

So what happens if the economy stagnates, stays the same or declines? Who benefits?

 

[Jacob]

I read your post again and your point doesnt make sense. You seem to be advocating for not growing the economy? Unless i have misunderstood.

Misunderstood. I asked how it would benefit those with bad access to health care, now immediately and in the future.

No thats not what i said. I said Canada has the opportunity to supply the world with the needed resources in a more sustainable way. Do you think the entire world is going to stop needing those resources tomorrow? you are purposefully missing my point.

Nobody needs more oil. It is becoming defunct worldwide. I don't know about Canada/mineral rights so have been having a look: https://climateinstitute.ca/what-holding-back-canada-critical-minerals/

 

[Jacob]

So what happens if the economy stagnates, stays the same or declines? Who benefits?

If the decline is due to hugely reduced fossil fuel use then the whole world benefits.

 

[danst96]

Misunderstood. I asked how it would benefit those with bad access to health care, now immediately and in the future.

Nobody needs more oil. It is becoming defunct worldwide. I don't know about Canada/mineral rights so have been having a look: https://climateinstitute.ca/what-holding-back-canada-critical-minerals/

Ok sorry. The immediate access will remain an issue, i dont think there is an overnight fix as with most government issues. However an increased GDP will facilitate the ability to support the health care. Part of the reason its under such strain is because the Canadian population has absolutely exploded in the last 3-4 years and the economy is not keeping up with that increase.

Nobody needs more but the need hasnt ended and there is an argument to supplying the required oil in a more sustainable manner which you keep ignoring. Look back last year, Germany appealed to Canada for natural gas so they could end their reliance on Russia. Canada refused so Russia keeps getting the money for the gas as well as Germany/europe getting it from other countries who are a lot less responsible than Canada.

Back to the original point though about the golden egg, i reiterate. Canada has one it just wont exploit it for vanity reasons.

 

[mudman]

his lived experience is wrong

he claims:

which is simply not true -as the evidence shows

also he claims all the problems with the Canadian economy are the fault of Trudeau........but the whole of the world has suffered post covid inflation, which is not mentioned


tax on labour income for Canada in OECD is at position 26th lowest
VAT taxes are at 34th in OECD

so youve not proven your point

View attachment 193452


VAT taxes are at 34th in OECD

so youve not proven your point

You really are arrogant. If I was a Canadian, I would be rather angry.

Another graph, another flawed conclusion.
The you need to see a breakdown of personal taxation without the employer contributions and family benefits to get an idea of what personal taxation is. Family benefits may be very large and that will have the effect of reducing the tax wedge value.
Also:

Seems to be saying that personal taxation is above average.

You need to do better.

 

[Jacob]

Ok sorry. The immediate access will remain an issue, i dont think there is an overnight fix as with most government issues. However an increased GDP will facilitate the ability to support the health care.

By redistributing the greater wealth with greater tax collection and investment in public services?

Part of the reason its under such strain is because the Canadian population has absolutely exploded in the last 3-4 years and the economy is not keeping up with that increase.

blame immigrants?

Nobody needs more but the need hasnt ended and there is an argument to supplying the required oil in a more sustainable manner which you keep ignoring.

There is no sustainable manner of supplying/using fossil fuels. The party is over.

 

[danst96]

blame immigrants?

There is no sustainable manner of supplying/using fossil fuels. The party is over.

was i blaming immigrants?

there are more responsible ways of supplying those fuels.

 

[mudman]

Such as? What other measures ?

I don't know, why would I? It was a 'what if' to try to show that unless everything is considered, you cannot make such statements based on incomplete data. Costs may have gone up, but what else has happened? Some of the 'other stuff' that hasn't been considered may nullify the added costs.

 

[Jacob]

was i blaming immigrants?

Blaming "exploding population" is usually shorthand for blaming immigrants.

there are more responsible ways of supplying those fuels.

No there are not, it's wishful thinking. We are coming to the end of fossil fuel use worldwide.