President Elect's 'top team'

[danst96]

A national dental plan? Sounds truly horrific, what were they thinking. I'd much rather all dentistry was private.

A national holiday? What is the world coming too, everyone should be made to work christmas day as well. The Bezo's and Musk's of the world need another space rocket.

I think you misunderstood.

A national dental plan that comes at the cost of massively increased taxes on already some of the highest taxes in the world. The majority of Canadians have healthcare policies which are usually covered by their employer which covers things like dental care.

As for the holiday, its a tax holiday. They are removing GST (general sales tax) which is 6% from purchases for 2 months on certain products. It will have very little impact on my household and pretty much every household other than put more strain on the national debt which they will come try take from us with a new tax next year.

 

[sploo]

Bang on here Tony. Trudeau is a media darling in other countries, just like Jacinda Arden was. However talk to the people that actually live here or in NZ, entirely different story.

The healthcare system here is more broken than the UK, we are taxed to the absolute hilt on bull s h it, there is a whole election interference scandal from China which the current government refuses to give any info about to the public (raises huge suspicions), we have a green peace activist as our environmental minister who serves his only interests only, we have a PM that refuses to exploit the colossal natural resource of this country which could be supplied to many western nations as a much more sustainable source of natural resources (which the world still needs to operate) in the name of doing good (i.e. pandering to the western media and get nice round of applauds at international summits) so instead those countries have to rely on countries in the middle east and China for those resources which are mined/extracted/exploited in a much more harmful way to both the environment and humanity, i could go on and on and on.

No government is perfect but the Canadian PM is possibly the biggest phony of all time and even though the vast majority of Canadians are screaming out for an election, he ignores and keeps on serving his own interests.

Oh and Robin, since you think trudie is so good, google Trudeau scandals. Blackface is just the tip of the iceberg. The guy is a national embarrassment.

This again feels like getting angry about things that weren't argued. I don't recall Robin saying anything positive about Trudeau; he's simply been presenting data that dispels the notion that Canada's economic issues are specifically his fault.

I can't but help think that you and mudman dislike the man so much (rightly or wrongly) that it clouds judgement and leads to cognitive dissonance when presented with data that doesn't paint him in a bad light.

 

[danst96]

Yes it's all nice, but how do we pay for it, the country is so far in debt, we are going to have to have 60% tax rate just to pay the interest alone for all these pet plans, and that won't even touch the national debt. Next it's going to be free groceries for everyone. Yes it all sounds great but we can't afford it. That's what thesegovts don't get. I don't think I've seen a balanced budget in my life except in Alberta's provincial govt we're there had a multi billion souvernity fund socked away from oil royalties. Alberta has no sales tax and a lot there had highly paying jobs, but again liberal govts stepped in , saw Alberta had money, ( I don't live in Alberta) and set up a wealth transfer tax. Rich provinces had to give to poor. And then the huge liberal govt deficit budgets come in giving everyone money and handouts from government loans. The government doesn't have the money to do this. They should be bankrupt, but I'm sure we are own a huge sum to China.

Its the same for BC and Saskatchewan as is in Alberta. They are the only provinces that come out in the green each year and as a result have billions and billions taken away from them and redistributed to "poorer" provinces. Quebec alone has something like $18 billion in payments coming from BC, SK and AB to help fund who knows what. What do those western provinces get in return? A middle finger and another tax hike on our ability to keep our houses warm. (its -28 Celsius where i am today)

 

[Jacob]

I think you misunderstood.

I think you misunderstood.
National health plans are designed as a catch-all to include those without adequate healthcare policies or without the means to pay.
If run properly they are far cheaper than the usual mishmash of insurance, charity, bankruptcy, poor quality state service for the poor, and last but not least - those whose health is poor due to lack of access for whatever reason.

 

[Jacob]

Its the same for BC and Saskatchewan as is in Alberta. They are the only provinces that come out in the green each year and as a result have billions and billions taken away from them and redistributed to "poorer" provinces.

Sounds good!

Quebec alone has something like $18 billion in payments coming from BC, SK and AB to help fund who knows what.

Why not enquire within and find out? Start with google, wikipedia etc.

What do those western provinces get in return?

Possibly a more civilised and healthier society for all. It's very simple.

 

[danst96]

This again feels like getting angry about things that weren't argued. I don't recall Robin saying anything positive about Trudeau; he's simply been presenting data that dispels the notion that Canada's economic issues are specifically his fault.

I can't but help think that you and mudman dislike the man so much (rightly or wrongly) that it clouds judgement and leads to cognitive dissonance when presented with data that doesn't paint him in a bad light.

TBH im not angry in the slightest, quite the opposite, this thread is amusing and entertaining.

My issue with Robin is he (and you) are defending Trudeau with "facts and figures" without having any real life context at all. Do either of you live in Canada? Do either of you pay Canadian taxes? Do either of you see the day to day impacts of the Canadian governments decisions? Do either of you have to have a concern about the balooning Canadian debt and who will pay for that?

My judgement is not clouded. I live here, I pay my taxes here, I love the country here and it saddens me to see the impact first hand. Its not a clouded judgment, its a first hand experience and its shared by (check the polls) the vast majority of this country. You can shout cognitive dissonance when you can say yes to my questions above.

Case in point, i do not and will not engage in in depth conversations or have strong opinions on the new UK government. I havent lived there for 4 years now and I am not in the position to voice strong opinions on it because i dont see the impacts first hand. What you see on social media and the news is not enough to go by.

 

[danst96]

I think you misunderstood.
National health plans are designed as a catch-all to include those without adequate healthcare policies or without the means to pay.
If run properly they are far cheaper than the usual mishmash of insurance, charity, bankruptcy, poor quality state service for the poor, and last but not least - those whose health is poor due to lack of access for whatever reason.

I dont disagree and to be honest I support some socialist elements such as access to free healthcare in general and I am not against necessarily the dental plan here (it covers seniors, under 18s and people with certain disabilities). however as Lefley indicated, its the tip of the iceberg. There are many national decisions that are being made and will be made that are creating extreme pressure on the debt which will have to be paid by someone at some point.

 

[Agent_zed]

I think you misunderstood.

A national dental plan that comes at the cost of massively increased taxes on already some of the highest taxes in the world. The majority of Canadians have healthcare policies which are usually covered by their employer which covers things like dental care.

As for the holiday, its a tax holiday. They are removing GST (general sales tax) which is 6% from purchases for 2 months on certain products. It will have very little impact on my household and pretty much every household other than put more strain on the national debt which they will come try take from us with a new tax next year.

Apologies I didn't understand the tax holiday part.

As for dental plan, surely the best outcome will be that rather than employers paying for healthcare insurance, which is going to be a significant cost, that it is paid for out of money taken from the uber wealthy. So that everyone gets dental care and you don't have to pay insurance companies loads of money to do very little.

It seems backwards that you would want a middle man. I guess it does create an industry/jobs but the outcome is it costs everyone more and some people don't have any cover at all.

 

[Jacob]

TBH im not angry in the slightest, quite the opposite, this thread is amusing and entertaining.

My issue with Robin is he (and you) are defending Trudeau with "facts and figures" without having any real life context at all. Do either of you live in Canada? Do either of you pay Canadian taxes? Do either of you see the day to day impacts of the Canadian governments decisions? Do either of you have to have a concern about the balooning Canadian debt and who will pay for that?

My judgement is not clouded. I live here, I pay my taxes here, I love the country here and it saddens me to see the impact first hand. Its not a clouded judgment, its a first hand experience and its shared by (check the polls) the vast majority of this country. You can shout cognitive dissonance when you can say yes to my questions above.

Case in point, i do not and will not engage in in depth conversations or have strong opinions on the new UK government. I havent lived there for 4 years now and I am not in the position to voice strong opinions on it because i dont see the impacts first hand. What you see on social media and the news is not enough to go by.

Canada not a special case - you get the same issues everywhere, one way or another. Your basic issue is how could a society be run for the many, not the few, with adequate public services, without redistributing wealth? Better by democratic taxation rather than revolution and theft!

 

[danst96]

Sounds good!

Why not enquire within and find out? Start with google, wikipedia etc.

Possibly a more civilised and healthier society for all. It's very simple.

See my reply to Sploo earlier, you can have an opinion when you see the real world impact.

My question about Quebec was asked in an ironic way.

A more expensive and difficult society for all in the western provinces.

 

[Jacob]

I dont disagree and to be honest I support some socialist elements such as access to free healthcare in general and I am not against necessarily the dental plan here (it covers seniors, under 18s and people with certain disabilities). however as Lefley indicated, its the tip of the iceberg.

What, civilisation bobbing up out of the swamp?!

There are many national decisions that are being made and will be made that are creating extreme pressure on the debt which will have to be paid by someone at some point.

Paid by those who have excess wealth. Unless you can think of an alternative. Geese laying golden eggs?

 

[TRITON]

...but he's just become the president elect of the most powerful nation in the world, even winning the popular vote so I would call that an achievement in itself, wouldn't you?
Anyway I'm sure you and others will not look for anything remotely positive with regard to Trump so it's really pointless debating with you, so as I've said previously we should wait and see!

I think we should at that.
But while you're here, you could furnish us with those lies you insist Keir Starmer told over the Labour manifesto.
You went quiet, and i reckoned you'd forgotten, so now is the perfect time to let us all know this evidence you have on that issue.

Awaits with baited breath ...

 

[danst96]

Apologies I didn't understand the tax holiday part.

As for dental plan, surely the best outcome will be that rather than employers paying for healthcare insurance, which is going to be a significant cost, that it is paid for out of money taken from the uber wealthy. So that everyone gets dental care and you don't have to pay insurance companies loads of money to do very little.

It seems backwards that you would want a middle man. I guess it does create an industry/jobs but the outcome is it costs everyone more and some people don't have any cover at all.

The insurance policies are a huge benefit here to be honest. It varies however most will cover many things which you pay for in the UK (chiropractor, orthodontist, optician etc.) We have free general healthcare (which is broken, you have people with cancer waiting months to be seen and you have remote towns with 1 surgeon who may or may not be available to save your life).

 

[RobinBHM]

Not going to say they didn't but those facts are not data, what are the actual numbers that they result in? Then when you have the numbers, that isn't evidence as it may not be supportive of your theory. The data would also fit a model where UK outperformed the G7 due to increased output, or a decrease in costs. So you have to find data that supports only your theory.
Currently we only have one example of a nation leaving a political union, the UK. There could have been many factors that could have caused the underperformance of our economy and without further data you can only say that it is 'in your opinion'.

they resulted in an increase in trade barriers which costs money -there hasnt been a trade benefit which outweighs the increase

you are trying to create a strawman by suggesting you cant isolate the figures nor make a comparison

Brexit costs mount for industry as Defra urged to address border chaos​

The Common User Charge can reach up to £29 per commodity line
(the Grocer)

Brexit trade barriers on food have cost UK billions – report​

Barriers include extra paperwork at border points and veterinary checks on livestock.
Brexit trade barriers include extra paperwork to validate goods at border points and veterinary checks on livestock.


The University’s updated report on the impact of the UK’s departure from the bloc – Brexit and Consumer Food Prices – found that trade barriers have hampered imports, pushing up household bills by an average £250.

It calculated the cost of food in the UK has increased by 25% since 2019 but if the post-Brexit trade restrictions were not in place then that would be only 17%.
https://www.just-food.com/news/brexit-trade-barriers-on-food-have-cost-uk-billions-report/


Unbound: UK Trade post-Brexit
This study analyses the significant and lasting impact of the Trade and Cooperation Agreement(TCA) on UK-EU trade relations three years after Brexit. The findings reveal sharp declines inUK exports (27%) and imports (32%) with the EU between 2021 and 2023. The contraction intrade is attributed to reductions in both the variety of goods exported (33%) and the intensivemargin of imports (28%). The study highlights that the TCA has caused severe disruptions inthe UK-EU supply chain, particularly in consumer and intermediate goods. Sectoral differencessuggest that smaller EU economies have been more affected by reduced UK export varieties,while larger ones like Germany and France have seen smaller declines. Non-tariff measures(NTMs), especially in agrifood, textile and material-based manufacturing products, havesignificantly impacted exports. The study emphasizes the need for policy interventions,including mitigating the adverse effects of the TCA, reconfiguring supply chains, andsupporting firms in adapting to new trade barriers

Our baseline estimates based on monthly data indicate a 27% decline in the value ofUK exports to the EU and a 32% decline in UK imports from the EU between 2021 and 2023,compared to a counterfactual scenario without Brexit. This translates to an annual loss of $80.1billion (£64.7 billion) in exports to the EU and $145.2 billion (£117.6 billion) in imports fromthe EU as of 2023.
https://www.aston.ac.uk/sites/default/files/2024-09/Full Report.pdf

 

[Jacob]

The insurance policies are a huge benefit here to be honest.

Of course they are to those that have them, and for life, to cover all needs.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3255221/

It varies however most will cover many things which you pay for in the UK (chiropractor, orthodontist, optician etc.) We have free general healthcare (which is broken,

exactly. How would you mend it?

 

[mudman]

From the content of your posts on the subject you appeared to be pretty riled up that Robin was presenting (evidence based) arguments to show that Canada's economic problems were likely down to Covid, rather than being the direct result of (scrolls up to check) "socialist cabal".

Not angry at all. Maybe a little exasperated by his 'I'm an expert you should listen to me' demeanor. He was maintaining that the poor performance of the CAD is due to it tracking the price of oil and gave us the benefit of his research skills with a nice graph. However, in that graph, there is a big chunk where the price of oil rose but the CAD didn't. If his contention was valid, then the CAD should have tracked it then as well. The CAD often shows a correlation to the price of oil but it doesn't always. The long term trend is there but it could be that the drop in oil prices could be coincidental to the poor performance of the CAD. You have to remember that correlation is not causation. There is a lot of outright bollocks spouted here by people that believe themselves to be experts. I may get a little exasperated by it at times but not angry. I'll leave that to those who believe I shouldn't have a belief that opposes their world view.

Well, yes. It's certainly possible to argue that had the UK not done Brexit then space aliens may well have invaded (we can't be 100% certain of what did not happen). However, it's reasonably clear from economic data that issues caused by Brexit (and again by Covid) correlate with downturns in economic performance. There have (and continue to be) significant Brexit border transport issues caused by the increases in paperwork and removal of frictionless trade with other EU nations (e.g. "HMRC estimates that the extra paperwork involved in these checks will cost UK importers and exporters an additional £7.5bn per year"; from https://www.bestforbritain.org/the_cost_of_brexit).

I think that is a daft argument as it is unlikely that the act of Brexit could cause an invasion by extraterrestrials. But I think you are nearly there. Remember correlation is not causation. Yes, extra paperwork may cost businesses more but this may have been nullified by other measures taken to recoup the loss and the actual downturn caused by something else. Maybe your space aliens.

 

[danst96]

exactly. How would you mend it?

through better governance. Redirection of tax money from other initiatives which have a smaller impact and greater exploitation of our natural resources to increase national GDP and as a result increasing national tax income. Thats before you address the shortage of professionals

 

[RobinBHM]

on already some of the highest taxes in the world.

not according to the data Canada is ranked 20th out of 38 in tax / gdp ratio below the Uk and many others

 

[mudman]

not according to the data Canada is ranked 20th out of 38 in tax / gdp ratio below the Uk and many others



View attachment 193450

That's the tax to GDP ratio, can you find a graph that shows tax as a percentage of income?

 

[RobinBHM]

Not angry at all. Maybe a little exasperated by his 'I'm an expert you should listen to me' demeanor. He was maintaining that the poor performance of the CAD is due to it tracking the price of oil and gave us the benefit of his research skills with a nice graph

I note that you dont pick up on danst96 for attributing the weakness of the CAD vs Dollar on the Trudeau

I provided a graph that indicates otherwise

My judgement is not clouded. I live here, I pay my taxes here, I love the country here and it saddens me to see the impact first hand

impact of what?

do you mean the impact of covid, which is the reason for the increase in debt and inflationary pressures globally including Canada

can you show that all the problems are due to Trudeau rather than covid?