President Elect's 'top team'

[RobinBHM]

To say with some certainty that leaving the EU caused the UK to underperform you would need to have a large scale study of other countries leaving a political union and the long term performance of their economies before and after. These studies don't exist so all we can do is to come to a conclusion based on opinion and guesswork with a large dash of political and ideological bias.

yes there are demonstrable and provable cost increases as a result of brexit


leaving the Single Market created increases in trade barriers

mostly these:

rules or origin checks
sanitary and phytosanitary controls
transit documents
customs declarations

these are increases in cost, they literally cost businesses more money, they create delays, that costs money

https://inews.co.uk/news/how-brexit...eNaa6yGt1eFwhkdlKn21t_7eHsjVpo1cntPOVdNaaGkob

 

[RobinBHM]

But data are facts?

Tony knows best, we shouldnt question it

 

[Jacob]

But currently in a minority government so I guess not.

So it was an undemocratic socialist cabal take over? Were many killed?

 

[ey_tony]

yes there are demonstrable and provable cost increases as a result of brexit


leaving the Single Market created increases in trade barriers

mostly these:

rules or origin checks
sanitary and phytosanitary controls
transit documents
customs declarations

these are increases in cost, they literally cost businesses more money, they create delays, that costs money

https://inews.co.uk/news/how-brexit...eNaa6yGt1eFwhkdlKn21t_7eHsjVpo1cntPOVdNaaGkob

So you don't believe that the EU has in any way deliberately made things difficult for the UK as a response to leaving the EU?

Is the UK choosing to make things difficult for itself or are restrictions being imposed on the UK by the EU?

If it's so vital that the UK is a member of the EU, why did the UK have such a huge trading deficit in favour of the EU when it was still a member?

 

[Lefley]

I would suggest it was Covid that increased Canada’s debt not Trudeau.

You would only be partially right, the only way Trudeau stayed in power was forming a collation with the NDP govt and then doing what they wanted. As Trudeau had a weak minority govt and would have not been able to pass any thing. So NDP wanted social programs for every one. A national dental plan cost 100's of billions which is now wiping out the insurance companies dental plans, etc, etc, etc, giving out 250$ to everybody for angst holiday because N election is coming up. Causing business to go hay wire as they have to check every product they have and reprogram the cash registers as they are also having a two month holiday on products that have gst. Cost another 4.7 to 6 billion. Etc etc

 

[Agent_zed]

So around 80 million people, the people who voted for him are all wrong? OK!
Which world do you actually live in...do you for instance live in the South West of England or America?

So which is it ...do you live in America or South West of England?

Ah the usual avoidance of the actual question. You are clearly willing to ignore all of the vile attributes of Trump because he might sumble upon a good idea.

Do I believe 80 million people are wrong? Yes! they have collectively said 'we don't care that our leader is a lying, cheating, sexual predator if he gets me the thing he is saying he will get me'. That is populism. It's exactly how Hitler got into power. It also won't get the American people what they want because it is all based on lies and deception. He's been saying for 4 years that the last election was stolen and now suddenly this one is perfect??? ok, because that's how that works. The border will suddenly be fixed as he'll use Biden's numbers and claim it for his own. And just like his 'beautiful wall' it will be a pile of ....

Your acceptance of such a vile predator is the thing that worries me the most. I can get supporting the republican ideal, but not Trump or the rest of his deviants.

It's somewhat ironic that you are asking people to accept something good might happen under trumpas I haven't seen one single iota of evidence of you supporting anything remotely 'left'. The idea that you aren't right wing is hilarious. All you've done (repeatedly) is call out 'lefties' in various derogatory terms, and not once mentioned anything good that the left have done. Not something an unbiased person would do.

 

[Agent_zed]

You would only be partially right, the only way Trudeau stayed in power was forming a collation with the NDP govt and then doing what they wanted. As Trudeau had a weak minority govt and would have not been able to pass any thing. So NDP wanted social programs for every one. A national dental plan cost 100's of billions which is now wiping out the insurance companies dental plans, etc, etc, etc, giving out 250$ to everybody for angst holiday because N election is coming up. Causing business to go hay wire as they have to check every product they have and reprogram the cash registers as they are also having a two month holiday on products that have gst. Cost another 4.7 to 6 billion. Etc etc

A national dental plan? Sounds truly horrific, what were they thinking. I'd much rather all dentistry was private.

A national holiday? What is the world coming too, everyone should be made to work christmas day as well. The Bezo's and Musk's of the world need another space rocket.

 

[Lefley]

A national dental plan? Sounds truly horrific, what were they thinking. I'd much rather all dentistry was private.

A national holiday? What is the world coming too, everyone should be made to work christmas day as well. The Bezo's and Musk's of the world need another space rocket.

Yes it's all nice, but how do we pay for it, the country is so far in debt, we are going to have to have 60% tax rate just to pay the interest alone for all these pet plans, and that won't even touch the national debt. Next it's going to be free groceries for everyone. Yes it all sounds great but we can't afford it. That's what thesegovts don't get. I don't think I've seen a balanced budget in my life except in Alberta's provincial govt we're there had a multi billion souvernity fund socked away from oil royalties. Alberta has no sales tax and a lot there had highly paying jobs, but again liberal govts stepped in , saw Alberta had money, ( I don't live in Alberta) and set up a wealth transfer tax. Rich provinces had to give to poor. And then the huge liberal govt deficit budgets come in giving everyone money and handouts from government loans. The government doesn't have the money to do this. They should be bankrupt, but I'm sure we are own a huge sum to China.

 

[Lefley]

Please avoid strawman arguments

the UK economy suffered badly from covid but the evidence also shows the UK economy suffered further because of brexit, it took a harder hit and it took longer to recover to pre covid levels, mostly because the UK left the Single Market and faced higher trade barriers at a time when global supply chains were damaged.

It is possible to show that costs increased due to leaving the single market are distinct from post covid inflation because the UK now faces permanent increases in non tariff barriers (such RoO checks, SpS controls, cabotage restrictions, transit documents, customs declarations) all of which have impacted UK businesses importing and exporting to our largest trade partner, the EU

If you want evidence of those cost increases over and above covid, I can provide them




Justin Trudeau is not a "socialist cabal member", he may be more progressive than the free market neo liberal Conservatives and Republicans but he isnt anything like a "socialist".

Unfortunately we see these tribal tropes being pushed, anybody not right wing are referred to as "socialists" "commies" "crazy marxists" .........when in fact its just not true.

He is so a socialist, he joined with the socialist( NDP party) to rule Canada, as he had a weak minority, he gave the socialist anything th3 wanted, borrowing billions of debt dollars just to stay in power, if he was not socialist leaning he would not of went to them and formed this collation. The NDP were up front to him when they did this, they want him to implement this this and this. I love it when people seem to know everything about another's peoples country, I know I'm a little quilty of posting abou5 uk politics from what I see and hear in news, but I don't live in it, so don't see the real day to day impact of that governments actual damage.

 

[Agent_zed]

Yes it's all nice, but how do we pay for it, the country is so far in debt, we are going to have to have 60% tax rate just to pay the interest alone for all these pet plans, and that won't even touch the national debt. Next it's going to be free groceries for everyone. Yes it all sounds great but we can't afford it. That's what thesegovts don't get. I don't think I've seen a balanced budget in my life except in Alberta's provincial govt we're there had a multi billion souvernity fund socked away from oil royalties. Alberta has no sales tax and a lot there had highly paying jobs, but again liberal govts stepped in , saw Alberta had money, ( I don't live in Alberta) and set up a wealth transfer tax. Rich provinces had to give to poor. And then the huge liberal govt deficit budgets come in giving everyone money and handouts from government loans. The government doesn't have the money to do this. They should be bankrupt, but I'm sure we are own a huge sum to China.

You pay for it by stopping a few individuals having the vast proportion of wealth. The alternative is to do what people like Trump do, which is ensure they have the most money and convince people at the bottom the reason they have no money is that it's someone else's fault, generally the migrants or the jews or whatever group is easily used as a scapegoat. 'They are eating the dawgs!...'

Bezo's (1 single person) is currently worth around $200 billion.

Oh no socialism!!!!! ahhh it would be terrible if the gap between the richest and poorest was ever so slightly closer than in the times of the French revolution. Let them eat cake!

https://irpp.org/research-studies/income-inequality-in-canada/

 

[RobinBHM]

So you don't believe that the EU has in any way deliberately made things difficult for the UK as a response to leaving the EU

The U.K. chose to leave the Single Market and diverge on standards.

It is impossible to trade without customs barriers and regulatory checks if 2 countries have different standards…..so it was inevitable that there would trade barriers and costly red tape.

In terms of negotiating the trade deal, you have to remember that when the UK,”took back control” so did the EU, because it was acting on behalf of the 27 members not the UK.

Is the UK choosing to make things difficult for itself

Yes, as explained above.

If it's so vital that the UK is a member of the EU, why did the UK have such a huge trading deficit in favour of the EU when it was still a member

Mostly because U.K. is made up of 4 nations and EU is 27 countries.

Trade deficits aren’t necessarily a bad thing, it’s a metric that doesn’t really prove much

 

[mudman]

yes there are demonstrable and provable cost increases as a result of brexit


leaving the Single Market created increases in trade barriers

mostly these:

rules or origin checks
sanitary and phytosanitary controls
transit documents
customs declarations

these are increases in cost, they literally cost businesses more money, they create delays, that costs money

https://inews.co.uk/news/how-brexit...eNaa6yGt1eFwhkdlKn21t_7eHsjVpo1cntPOVdNaaGkob

Not going to say they didn't but those facts are not data, what are the actual numbers that they result in? Then when you have the numbers, that isn't evidence as it may not be supportive of your theory. The data would also fit a model where UK outperformed the G7 due to increased output, or a decrease in costs. So you have to find data that supports only your theory.
Currently we only have one example of a nation leaving a political union, the UK. There could have been many factors that could have caused the underperformance of our economy and without further data you can only say that it is 'in your opinion'.

 

[sploo]

Forget Trump for a moment and I know this is entirely off-topic and rather random but more importantly in the grand scheme of things it has a lot of bearing on the future of the UK, do you think that increasing NI taxation on struggling businesses recovering from the effects of the Covid recession and the recession from the ongoing Ukrainian conflict will actually stimulate growth in our economy and get more people back into work?

I'm not against raising the minimum wage by the way but someone has to pay for it so do you think that increasing the costs of employing staff and raising their wages will stimulate growth in the economy as has been promised?

It's a good question. I'd rather not see taxes raised in ways that will impact "ordinary people"; so the increase on employers' NI was a rather convenient "fudge" to claim that employees weren't being taxed more.

I'd rather see the billions lost on large scale tax avoidance be "fixed", but I accept that's highly unlikely to happen.

 

[danst96]

US dollar price per barrel

Also CAD is linked to to the US dollar when that strengthen CAD drops

With the US as Canadas largest trading partner, when times are good in the US, CAD weaker against it. When times are bad in the US, the Canadian dollar trades better against it.


US economy has been strong under Biden, fastest global recovery, fastest global growth rate


I have countered your above points

By the way Canada is 3rd in G7 on gdp growth and 2nd in terms of lowest income inequality, so measuring against other countries it’s not doing badly

Canada is feeling the effects of post covid inflation and supply chain damage,


You think Trump was the best candidate for USA……let’s see how that pans out, it’s seems Trump isn’t going to be great for Canada, maybe you should’ve been rooting for Kamala

The rest of your post here is bumff however i dont necessarily disagree with your last statement, I agree that Trump, in the short term, could harm Canada.

That said though, the US is the largest economy in the world and the better they do, the better the rest of us do, particularly in Canada since we are basically the 51st state when it comes to business and the economy. Without a strong US economy, Canada is dead and its my belief that Trump will be good for the US economy on a wider picture.

Beyond that, we are due an election here next year and the vast majority of the Canadian population is absolutely sick of Trudeau and his broken promises and corrupt government and we will more than likely end up with Poilievre as PM who, i believe and many believe will have a much better relationship with Trump.

 

[danst96]

I would suggest it was Covid that increased Canada’s debt not Trudeau.

Or maybe its Trudeaus actions since Covid. You really cannot comment without living here bud, the media in the UK doesnt give you any real info to go by.

 

[sploo]

Not angry. What makes you say that? Bemused that someone can look at a graph and make assumptions and rather simplistic conclusions from limited data and facts.
I think you're getting angry because someone has dared to question a cult leader.


No I haven't, just making an observation.

From the content of your posts on the subject you appeared to be pretty riled up that Robin was presenting (evidence based) arguments to show that Canada's economic problems were likely down to Covid, rather than being the direct result of (scrolls up to check) "socialist cabal".

I think we can agree on Covid being a cause but with Brexit, just what evidence is there? You know real evidence, not the list of assumptions from the OBR that was linked to earlier or economist's forecasts. In reality, we only have a few facts, Brexit happened, Covid happened, and that the UK underperformed the G7 in recent years. What all these studies do is to assume that the UK would have performed in line with the other G7 nations and then extrapolated from there. Then noticed a gap and then come to the conclusion that is must have been Brexit. Facts aren't data, the facts we have do not tell us what happens in general. To say with some certainty that leaving the EU caused the UK to underperform you would need to have a large scale study of other countries leaving a political union and the long term performance of their economies before and after. These studies don't exist so all we can do is to come to a conclusion based on opinion and guesswork with a large dash of political and ideological bias.
So in essence, show me the data, and maybe I'll agree with you. But it has to be actual data that can prove that in a parallel universe, a UK that didn't leave the EU performed in line with the G7.

Well, yes. It's certainly possible to argue that had the UK not done Brexit then space aliens may well have invaded (we can't be 100% certain of what did not happen). However, it's reasonably clear from economic data that issues caused by Brexit (and again by Covid) correlate with downturns in economic performance. There have (and continue to be) significant Brexit border transport issues caused by the increases in paperwork and removal of frictionless trade with other EU nations (e.g. "HMRC estimates that the extra paperwork involved in these checks will cost UK importers and exporters an additional £7.5bn per year"; from https://www.bestforbritain.org/the_cost_of_brexit).

 

[Agent_zed]

It's a good question. I'd rather not see taxes raised in ways that will impact "ordinary people"; so the increase on employers' NI was a rather convenient "fudge" to claim that employees weren't being taxed more.

I'd rather see the billions lost on large scale tax avoidance be "fixed", but I accept that's highly unlikely to happen.

This is one of the differences I see between our politicians and the current US 'politicians'. When it was pointed out that Rishi's wife had no-dom status and was saving millions, she took it on the chin and even though technically she did not have to do so, she paid UK tax.

On the contrary, when it was pointed out that Trump was paying nothing or about $750 dollars in tax for many years, he just claimed he was smart and carried on ripping off the very people that support him.

If your level of integrity is 'If I get caught, I don't give a poop' then I don't want you in charge of deciding the economy for everyone else.

 

[danst96]

People like you who live their lives in Canada and experience everything first hand on a daily basis just can't simply come on here and tell people who've never lived there or don't live under the regime that they're wrong!

What they've read on the internet trumps your first hand knowledge and daily experiences and is akin to someone reading the Bible or Quoran! It's all true and those who don't agree or believe what is written are heretics.

Bang on here Tony. Trudeau is a media darling in other countries, just like Jacinda Arden was. However talk to the people that actually live here or in NZ, entirely different story.

The healthcare system here is more broken than the UK, we are taxed to the absolute hilt on bull s h it, there is a whole election interference scandal from China which the current government refuses to give any info about to the public (raises huge suspicions), we have a green peace activist as our environmental minister who serves his only interests only, we have a PM that refuses to exploit the colossal natural resource of this country which could be supplied to many western nations as a much more sustainable source of natural resources (which the world still needs to operate) in the name of doing good (i.e. pandering to the western media and get nice round of applauds at international summits) so instead those countries have to rely on countries in the middle east and China for those resources which are mined/extracted/exploited in a much more harmful way to both the environment and humanity, i could go on and on and on.

No government is perfect but the Canadian PM is possibly the biggest phony of all time and even though the vast majority of Canadians are screaming out for an election, he ignores and keeps on serving his own interests.

Oh and Robin, since you think trudie is so good, google Trudeau scandals. Blackface is just the tip of the iceberg. The guy is a national embarrassment.

 

[danst96]

The socialist cabal must have been elected by an even bigger socialist cabal; a majority of the electorate!

A minority government, propped up by a coward who will not end his support at the fear he will miss out on his parliamentary pension which he will get later next year, just before the federal elections.

Most Canadians want both gone.

 

[sploo]

So you don't believe that the EU has in any way deliberately made things difficult for the UK as a response to leaving the EU?

Absolutely. We said "I'd like to leave this club please", and as a result we lost the benefits of being a member of that club. Just as my local gym deliberately made things difficult for me to use their kit after I stopped paying for my membership.

Is the UK choosing to make things difficult for itself or are restrictions being imposed on the UK by the EU?

We chose to leave (so made things difficult for ourselves). We've further introduced some checks and import restrictions that aren't helping us (some of which were delayed when the likes of Rees-Mogg realised the problems they'd cause). The rest of the EU has simply been following the rules that are clearly available (and applied) to any third country (of which the UK is now one). They're literally doing what we asked them to.

If it's so vital that the UK is a member of the EU, why did the UK have such a huge trading deficit in favour of the EU when it was still a member?

Trade deficit simply means we buy more than we sell. It's not necessarily a bad thing. That LegalEagle video I posted a few days ago mentions this (in relation to the US/China trade deficit).