Poker chips

[SimonStevensCanes]

Ok so this has become more of a mental exercise than something I’m likely to undertake. Though maybe because I’ve not been able to come up with a solution that I’m happy with. Still, it’s been a fun challenge and there has been interest in the Settlers of Catan project thread, so I thought I’d start this to avoid polluting a great project thread.

These are the constraints that I placed on the project...

• premium/luxury end result
• minimum of 300 chips per set
• low labour
• low initial investment
• low footprint (I have no space)

...there may be more that I’ve internalised . The labour point is a little more nuanced. I don’t want to spend hours and hours in the workshop to make a single set, but if there is something clean and quiet that I can do in front of the tv of an evening, then that’s fine.

the astute amongst you will realise that I’m breaking the rule of 3 (cheap, fast, good... pick 2), which is no doubt what makes this difficult

 

[SimonStevensCanes]

Challenges that I’ve identified so far...

If cutting circles from flat stock, purchasing/machining sufficient “luxury” timber in quantity would be tricky. Each chip should be approximately 3mm thick (iirc). This could invalidate an otherwise pretty obvious choice of CNC/Laser.

Slicing large dowels is really labour efficient (could easily batch out a few thousand in an hour), but I’m not really sold on end grain for the chip faces, and I found them quite easy to snap .

Once I’ve got a big bucket of disc, a luxury chip should a a 3D/embossed design. I could create a router template to achieve the necessary accuracy, but I’d estimate a minimum of 15 seconds per side, meaning 300 chips takes 2.5 hours just for this step.

If slicing from dowels, I could embed contrasting wood strips along the length of the dowels to create the face design. No 3D/embossing of course, but maybe the result would be sufficiently luxurious. Correct selection of the grain direction would also strengthen end grain chips. Sort of like creating a stick of rock.

More thoughts to follow...

 

[SimonStevensCanes]

I wondered about using a press with a stamp to emboss discs. I have a brass stamp that I could use to test with, and after 5 minutes of smacking it with a hammer to mimic a press I discovered how hard end grain beech is. No sign of any impression .

 

[Dr Al]

I wondered about using a press with a stamp to emboss discs. I have a brass stamp that I could use to test with, and after 5 minutes of smacking it with a hammer to mimic a press I discovered how hard end grain beech is. No sign of any impression .

With a couple of brass stamps (so you can alternate) and a log burner to heat the one you're not using up, you could burn the mark into the wood quite quickly. Stamping with hammer / press force would almost certainly need a hardened steel stamp; the brass won't last long.

 

[TheTiddles]

Not sure if it’s directly applicable but years ago whilst I was taxing a moulding company with some stupidly overcomplicated design, they said the most challenging things they ever made were poker chips, which kinda surprised me, considering what I was asking them to do

Aidan

 

[Droogs]

Make the Hakone style. Cut up the long strips in the shape you need and then spend an evening gluing up the pattern in front of the TV and then slice 'em on the band saw and give then a quick sand and finish. sort of along the lines of the pic below

 

[akirk]

Good to see you taking this on... my mission to turn the forum into a (board) games forum is working!

At 3mm the obvious easy options are slicing dowel - which I will do for the number disks in the settlers of catan game, (though I understand the desire to get the grain right)... or laser, lasers over a certain power will engrave your design and then cut out the piece... though you can end up with burned edges where you use a lower spec. laser... equally a CNC will ‘engrave’ cut out the castellated edge and then cut out the piece...

having said all that I like the Droogs approach above...

 

[marcros]

I like the idea and Droogs approach, but I would do some research first. I had a read on google to see what was out there.

I would get a length of dowel- 40mm or thereabouts in diameter and slice it at 3-4mm. If you turn it, it needs to be very accurate so the chips are identical. Play around with them for a few minutes, flick them in your fingers, stack, organise, push them around. play a few hands with yourself, see whether they feel nice to play with- the decoration is secondary.

Having played occasionally with good chips (rather than with the cheapest available) and having been to a casino and fiddled around with chips, they have a certain feel and sound to them. They are slightly slippery but not too slippery and they make that satisfying clink. My theory is that wooden ones will not have the same weight and feel. I think that you will struggle on the luxury/high end feel. Where you could add value I think is in high end storage for purchased chips and some high end dealer/blinds buttons.

 

[sploo]

A few thoughts (having done things not entirely dissimilar)...

Slicing up a dowel is fairly quick, but you're unlikely to get a finished quality surface - so factor in a decent bit of sanding per chip (which won't be trivial with something the size of a poker chip). With a lathe you can make "end grain" dowel; such that when you slice it the discs are side/long grain - though obviously the dowel itself will be easy to snap so needs careful handling.

With a bandsaw and a thickness planer (or maybe preferably a drum sander) you could create 3mm thick sheets of timber, and cut discs on a CNC; but the most time efficient way would probably need a custom vacuum clamping plate to hold each chip (and the area of each chip may be insufficient to be held).

Some form of plug cutter or hole saw may allow you to manually drill out the circles from a timber sheet; but then the edges would need some smoothing. If you're in the business of making hundreds then a vibratory tumbler might do the job - I've seen one used to smooth small wooden "badges" and it was very effective.

 

[SimonStevensCanes]

Make the Hakone style. Cut up the long strips in the shape you need and then spend an evening gluing up the pattern in front of the TV and then slice 'em on the band saw

I had thought of grooving and inlaying wood strips to a dowel, but it stupidly hadn't occurred to me to make up a dowel from scratch. That's got some legs, particularly as it removes "find dowels in desired size/materials" from the requirements. Making up a consistent dowel would be straight forward with the appropriate jigs also.

My theory is that wooden ones will not have the same weight and feel.

Yes, this was, and still is, is a concern of mine. First thing I did was buy a 40mm dowel and slice off a handful (at which point I discovered they are fairly easy to snap). They don't feel bad in the hand, and they have a nice sound as they interact with each other, but they are definitely light weight. Brass inserts (possibly as part of the design, see above quote) could help with that. However that complicates manufacturing as I would definitely need a lathe at that point.

Slicing up a dowel is fairly quick, but you're unlikely to get a finished quality surface - so factor in a decent bit of sanding per chip (which won't be trivial with something the size of a poker chip).

My experiments showed that my table saw created a much nicer finish than my band saw. Of course, my bandsaw had a rip blade in it, but ho hum. Anyway, the finish from the table saw was surprisingly good.

Sanding/finishing is one of my biggest concerns, just that alone could kill the concept. Any step that takes more than "single digit seconds" spent on a single chip kills the project imo.

With a lathe you can make "end grain" dowel; such that when you slice it the discs are side/long grain

That is an important tip and it works nicely with Droogs suggestion. Nice one!

CNC stuff - probably need a custom vacuum clamping plate to hold each chip.

Yeah, difficulties with stock is probably only half the issue. Securing hundreds of chips is a big problem. A laser doesn't have that problem, but the power to cut through 3mm hardwood will leave scorching no doubt. Can leave tabs in and a trim router with a flush trim bit can quickly and easily detach those at a cost of a second or two per chip.

 

[SimonStevensCanes]

I should buy some high end poker chips really for comparison, but I'm too cheap for that

 

[sploo]

My worry with tabs and a flush trim bit would be the dangers of trying to do that with a thin, small diameter, part. Maybe OK if held using a push block/stick type handle with some fine sandpaper glued on in order to "grip" the top of the chip being trimmed.

It occurs to me that a table saw jig might be helpful - hard to describe in words but hoping the pic below might help. It's a solid block with a hole drilled through for the dowel. Push the dowel until it's flush with the outside edge of the block, then run onto the table saw blade (guided by your saw's slots). That should create a pretty clean disk of exactly the right thickness. A bit of time in a vibratory tumbler might be all that was then needed to knock off any "fuzzies"

 

[SimonStevensCanes]

My worry with tabs and a flush trim bit would be the dangers of trying to do that with a thin, small diameter, part. Maybe OK if held using a push block/stick type handle with some fine sandpaper glued on in order to "grip" the top of the chip being trimmed.

The way I've seen it done, is that the CNC makes the cuts, leaving tabs that are half height. Once finished, somebody uses a flush trim bit with a top bearing to free the piece and clear away the tab in the same action. I did a double take when I saw it done, a very elegant solution imo.

Of course, for manufacturing small things on the CNC you're going to want to use as small a router bit as possible for the actual cuts to minimise waste, so finding a router bit with a bearing smaller than that may be a challenge.

It occurs to me that a table saw jig might be helpful - hard to describe in words but hoping the pic below might help. It's a solid block with a hole drilled through for the dowel. Push the dowel until it's flush with the outside edge of the block, then run onto the table saw blade (guided by your saw's slots). That should create a pretty clean disk of exactly the right thickness.

Cutting on the table saw was pretty trivial with a stop block on the waste side. However, your jig could be effective to stop tear out (maybe that's what you meant).

A bit of time in a vibratory tumbler might be all that was then needed to knock off any "fuzzies"

I finally looked up what a vibratory tumbler is... that's a very effective solution. Might be a challenge to make something that's effective at the scale I'd be after, but it definitely seems possible.

 

[novocaine]

vacuum bed for work holding. gang up a load of chips on the bed and sand all at once. flip them all over and do the other side.
can be simulated with super glue and masking tape for the time being to test the concept.
this assumes you make a dowel and finish the outside before cutting chips.
you will be missing the indentation of real poker chips, there isn't a quick way to do this short of a press to deform the centre of the chip.

 

[sploo]

The way I've seen it done, is that the CNC makes the cuts, leaving tabs that are half height. Once finished, somebody uses a flush trim bit with a top bearing to free the piece and clear away the tab in the same action. I did a double take when I saw it done, a very elegant solution imo.

Of course, for manufacturing small things on the CNC you're going to want to use as small a router bit as possible for the actual cuts to minimise waste, so finding a router bit with a bearing smaller than that may be a challenge.



Cutting on the table saw was pretty trivial with a stop block on the waste side. However, your jig could be effective to stop tear out (maybe that's what you meant).



I finally looked up what a vibratory tumbler is... that's a very effective solution. Might be a challenge to make something that's effective at the scale I'd be after, but it definitely seems possible.

I use a flush trimming router bit + tabs on workpieces for just about all CNC work. However, anything under about 6mm (with 2-3mm tab height) starts to become difficult with the trimming bit as there's usually a gap between the router bit bearing and the actual cutter - so you need probably 3mm of "clean" shape for the bearing to follow whilst actually having the cutter hitting the tabs. 3mm thick material with a ~1mm tab sounds risky to me, but I suppose there might be a suitable bit around.

Yea - I was thinking that the table saw jig would reduce tearout.

I've seen quite a few big tumblers. Frankly any old motor (probably 0.5hp+) with an eccentric would successfully wobble a round plastic bucket or storage box and take the edges off a few hundred poker chips - even if it had to be left running for a few hours.

 

[SimonStevensCanes]

3mm thick material with a ~1mm tab sounds risky to me, but I suppose there might be a suitable bit around.

doh, and here was me focusing on the "kerf" size.. yeah, hadn't thought of that at all.

At any rate, a CNC isn't in my short term future, I need a new workshop for that, and then a spare few k (which will be hard to find after building a workshop and filling it with tools). I do file these away though. If I were to pursue this then reinvesting proceeds could result in a dedicated space just for churning out poker chips, and then every idea is fair game.

 

[SimonStevensCanes]

A nicely timed video from Tamar at 3x3Custom



I was surprised by how effective the router method was. I'd need a 20mm round over bit and to make a jig to minimise waste, but that's the solution to 1 problem

 

[novocaine]

the great and marvelous Steve for dowel making, I see no reason this wouldn't work on large pieces, you'd have to make a drive plate for the drill to attach to.

 

[CaptainBudget]

An additional option might be the below?

CMT Plug Cutter 40mm Plug Diameter S=16mm

You would need a proper meaty drill, but you'd get consistent 40mm discs. You can then bore them from 3mm thick strips of timber of your choice.

Careful use of clamps (an an appropriate forstner-type bit) would allow you to cut the recess in the middle, switch the tool and cut it out with both holes circles concentric. It would not be the quickest to make though (with two tool changes and a clamp adjustment per chip), and a CNC machine with an integrated tool changer would be better suited (but I don't think is commercially available/viable for this application)

To finish you could then cast opaque/coloured resin into the recess (hiding the centre point of the forstner bit and increasing the density), and then sand/polish to a mirror finish (or use a similar medium). You could use different colours to easily denote different values, and it would only need to be 15-20mm DIA to visually register in use so the timber can still be the star of the show.