Plough plane for guitar truss rod routes?

[LuptonM]

Does such a thing exist? Basically for u non-guitar people is there a plough plane with a cutter of about 0.225 inches wide?

Oh and I got my 21st b-day present early since I went home for the weekend to celebrate my b-day (which is on tuesday) with my family.

I gave my parents the link to the LA jack plane and that is what I got but I wasn't expecting the Dakota workbench as well (http://www.rutlands.co.uk/hand-tools/wo ... -workbench). It says it should take an hour to assemble but it took me 3 hours since I am incompetent and not all the components fitted that well together so it was a bit of a struggle. I guess they got fed up with me talking about workbenches, LOL.

I must say in the hour i got to play with the veritas plane I haven't quite got the hang of setting the lateral adjustment.

 

[GazPal]

Non-guitar people? :lol: :wink:

Yes, a 1/4" cutter will do the job and allow you to bed the truss rod, or - if you want a tight fit - you can simply adapt a cutter (A few swipes on a sharpening stone) to suit the width of the truss rod you're using. :wink:

A basic Stanley 13-050 has both a 6mm and 1/4" cutter among it's set of 18 cutters. Normally somewhere between £15 - £25 for a complete plane and blade set via Evil-Bay.

 

[Kalimna]

To be honest, unless you are desperate to do things with hand tools as much as possible, then using a round bottomed router cutter would be a much easier bet. And if you are making a guitar (acoustic or electric) then a router is invaluable anyway.

However, Im sure a plough plane would work admirably, such as the veritas one, or if you are feeling flush, perhaps Philly could be persuaded to custom make you one???

What sort of guitar are you planning on?

Adam S

 

[GazPal]

To be honest, unless you are desperate to do things with hand tools as much as possible, then using a round bottomed router cutter would be a much easier bet. And if you are making a guitar (acoustic or electric) then a router is invaluable anyway.

However, Im sure a plough plane would work admirably, such as the veritas one, or if you are feeling flush, perhaps Philly could be persuaded to custom make you one???

What sort of guitar are you planning on?

Adam S

I tend to disagree in terms of an electric router proving easier than a plough or combination plane for chasing channels. A great deal depends upon familiarity with the tools being used. Leaving a plough plane set-up for regular use tends to prove an easier option than setting up an electric router, but I do agree regarding the flexability you can gain by having something like a Bosch GF600 handy for shaping and trimming, but cost (Purchase of tool and bits, plus maintenance) needs to also be considered.

Rosettes and soundholes are readily prepared using a simple circle cutter and chisel/small hand router, while trimming-in can be done using a purfling cutter and scraper. An entire trimming kit can be made/bought for much less than an electric router/laminate trimmer and relevant bits.

 

[LuptonM]

I have a router but would feel more comfortable using a hand plane for such a task as I would have much more control over it and would be less likely to screw up an expensive neck blank (plus its not noisy).

Personally I really hate routers but they are very useful for routing cavities via a template method. However, finding bushings of the right site to fit is a pain in the ***!!!!!

I have a template for a Les paul jnr dc type guitar but I need a 5/8" bushing to fit my router. My router is a bosch 1400 ace, any suggestions?
I reckon I'll need an adapter plate to fit but not sure if any will fit it.

Oh and another thing, how would u use a shooting board to taper the fretboard to precise dimensions?

 

[Kalimna]

There are certainly much more experienced luthiers than I on this forum, but I would still go with a router. Once the fence is set up, and you place a stop 'block' to prevent further travel of the router along the neck, it's pretty straightforward. Much easier to show than explain by typing!

As for the bushing - have you tried Axminster? Or failing that, any local Bosch dealership should be able to help.

And for the fingerboard - I wouldnt use a shooting board. To do so would require angling the entire fretboard by the taper amount (not sure off the top of my head what that value is). However, and you may not like the suggestion , if you make up a tapered template it could be used as a router template to go over the neck sides, and then once the fretboard is glued on, use the router again and the already tapered neck as a guide for the router to rout the fretboard. If that makes sense??

A couple of other thoughts for you - have you had a look over on www.mimf.com? It's an excellent luthiery forum, and though American, tis not a problem
Also, Phill (of Philly Planes) has recently completed a blogged build of a guitar that might be of interest.

Where, may I ask, are you obtaining all your wood and bits n bobs?

Take care,
Adam

 

[GazPal]

I have a router but would feel more comfortable using a hand plane for such a task as I would have much more control over it and would be less likely to screw up an expensive neck blank (plus its not noisy).

Personally I really hate routers but they are very useful for routing cavities via a template method. However, finding bushings of the right site to fit is a pain in the ***!!!!!

I have a template for a Les paul jnr dc type guitar but I need a 5/8" bushing to fit my router. My router is a bosch 1400 ace, any suggestions?
I reckon I'll need an adapter plate to fit but not sure if any will fit it.

Oh and another thing, how would u use a shooting board to taper the fretboard to precise dimensions?

Fingerboard- locate centre, offset measurements for taper and shoot to just shy of the line. Refine fit once the fingerboard's glued to the neck.

Try Axminster for Bosch router bushes.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/bosch-bosch- ... prod31903/

There should be something there that's compatable with your Bosch base plate, but - if not - you could also consider switching for a universal base.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ax ... rod827664/

Another option for p'up cavities is to make your own template, rough out using a straight bit, then switch out for a normal profile cutting bit to refine the outline.

 

[Kalimna]

GazPal - I will accept your greater experience, but the two necks I have made (well, 3, but one had the heel glued at 12th, not 14th fret by mistake....) were done with a router for the trussrod channel. Mind you, it is certainly a little more satisfying hearing the swish of a plane than the grumble of a router!

Here's a piccy of the setup used, the clamps being used as a stop as well as holding the neck.

And the end result :

Cheers,
Adam

 

[GazPal]

GazPal - I will accept your greater experience, but the two necks I have made (well, 3, but one had the heel glued at 12th, not 14th fret by mistake....) were done with a router for the trussrod channel. Mind you, it is certainly a little more satisfying hearing the swish of a plane than the grumble of a router.
Cheers,
Adam

Hi Adam, it's Gary. :wink: It's all an endless learning curve and we'd be liars if we said we never made mistakes.

I use routers too, but both handplane and router method work equally well and can be just a fast and effective. One set of drawbacks with routing tend to be the facts it can take as long to produce cutting templates and mistakes can tend to be greater than with handplanes/traditional methods. Template making is fine if making multiple pieces, but one-off's tend to be a waste of energy, unless vital to accuracy and you've no other means of doing the work.

 

[MIGNAL]

There's a wobble in that channel. So much for Routers :shock:

 

[LuptonM]

The bosch template bushes on the internet do not fit the bosch pof 1400 ace even though they advertise that they do. I've ordered one once before and it did not fit even though it advertised it did. The packaging said it would only fit GOF900 ect- not pof ace models.

I might try to get a universal base but I am skeptical to how accurately centred it would be. If the base fits and the trend bushing fit the base then that would work a treat.

I actually got a set of templates CNC'd for accuracy. But I didn't realise router bushings would be such a pain in the arse.

heres a link I found on the net for guitar outlines. Note some of them are not accurate
http://sites.google.com/site/djhautecou ... itar-plans

The Catto plan is though

 

[GazPal]

The bosch template bushes on the internet do not fit the bosch pof 1400 ace even though they advertise that they do. I've ordered one once before and it did not fit even though it advertised it did. The packaging said it would only fit GOF900 ect- not pof ace models.

I might try to get a universal base but I am skeptical to how accurately centred it would be. If the base fits and the trend bushing fit the base then that would work a treat.

Try;

http://www.mtmc.co.uk/Spare-Parts/Bosch ... 10396.aspx

Bases are easily enough centred, but why not make your own base?

You can centre it to your router and route a small channel to accept bushes of your choice.

 

[Kalimna]

Yes, there is a wobble, but it was somewhere around the 6th time I had ever used a router
And with the fingerboard on top, not an issue........


Adam

 

[dunbarhamlin]

I used a powered router for my first neck. Since then I have always used a plough plane (anything from a Record 043 to a Stanley 43)

 

[Racers]

Hi,

Wouldn't it be hard the cut a grove stopped at each end with a plow plane? You would have to plane from both ends.

Pete

 

[bugbear]

Does such a thing exist? Basically for u non-guitar people is there a plough plane with a cutter of about 0.225 inches wide?

Cutters can fairly easily be ground to non standard widths. You might want to choose a plane with takes "simple" cutters (i.e. no snecks, grooves etc).

Here, Trizza uses a Record #043 for the purpose:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/budg ... 44456.html

GazPal - if you can turn a 0.25" cutter into a 0.225" cutter with "A few swipes on a sharpening stone", you've got a more aggressive sharpening stone than me!

BugBear

 

[GazPal]

Hi,

Wouldn't it be hard the cut a grove stopped at each end with a plow plane? You would have to plane from both ends.

Pete

Hi Pete,

It's not as tricky as it may seem. :wink:

If producing a stopped channel, you can use a hand router (#71/#071) for the end sections and remove bulk using a plough or the same router plane with it's fence fitted and blade centred to the neck blank. Simply drill a suitable hole at each stop end and work the trench to depth between the two.

Truss rod channels don't necessarily need to be stop ended if they're to be concealed. The simplest method is to plane a continuous trench from headstock to soundhole. A chicken fillet filler strip is inlaid at the opposite end to the adjuster and the job's done.

If the filler strip is used at the headstock end of the truss rod channel on a standard acoustic neck, it acts as reinforcement to the headstock:neck transition point.

Set-up for either of the above is just as quick - if not quicker - than using a powered router and the same can be said of the process.

-------------

The reason I've mentioned hand planing techniques is because it's not necessary for someone to buy an electric router if they wish to build guitars/musical instruments. All of the steps involved during a build were and still can be carried out using hand tools and this was the case for many hundreds of years before power tools came into vogue.

 

[dunbarhamlin]

If it must be stopped (can always fill the end(s) with an offcut from the blank) then use a mortise chisel to define the ends of the slot and a router (tea and biscuit powered kind) once the plough has defined the slot sides.
Could use a scratch stock in place of plough and router - especially if a profiled slot floor is preferred.

 

[GazPal]

GazPal - if you can turn a 0.25" cutter into a 0.225" cutter with "A few swipes on a sharpening stone", you've got a more aggressive sharpening stone than me!

BugBear

Or a much better technique. :wink: It's only 0.635mm, so any sharpening stone activity would amount to more of a threat than a swipe, while wondering "Is it really worth the effort?"

 

[LuptonM]

The cutters of the record no43 look like they are just straight bars of metal so they should be easy to make if one needed to be. They seem to be relatively common on ebay, so I'll see if I can get one of those

For fitting the heel on a guitar with a neck angle, is it possible in some way to use a shoulder plane to get a nice fit?