Planing wood with awkward grain?

[Nads]

Could anyone give me any advice on planing a board with gain in various directions. I am trying to plane some ash, which has gain in all sorts of different directions. I’ve tried planing the wood with the plane on the skew, but I’m still getting tear out. I’ve sharpened the blade super sharp and have adjusted the plane to as fine a cut as I can, what am I doing wrong? I am still fairly new to planing so any advice you could give me would be great!! :?

Thanks guys! :wink:

Nads

 

[dedee]

Nads,
Others here will be better placed than I for advise on plane types, blade angles, and bevel up or down etc

What plane are you using?

If the grain is really wild then perhaps a cabinet scraper would help.

Andy

 

[Adam]

You could try a scraper? Or a high angle on the plane blade?

Adam

 

[Alf]

You could try a scraper? Or a high angle on the plane blade?

:sign3: - NOT! Could well be your edge isn't as super sharp as you think it is too.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Nads]

Well it is possibly isn’t super shape by your standards Alf :wink: , but I did sharpen the blade using 800, 1200 & 8000 grit waterstones using my Veritas honing guide it it’s seems the sharpest I’m currently capable of getting it. It’s honed with a 25 degree bevel with a secondary mirco bevel (using the honing guide). I did think about using a cabinet scraper but, at what point do I use it, do I try and get the wood as flat as I can, and to the right thickness etc and then use the cabinet scraper or do I use it before that? :? I'm currently using a re-conditioned Record No.4 brought from Ray Iles with one of his blades fitted. Or is it time to get out my LV low angle jack with my 50 York bevel, it seems a bit extreme, as the gain in different directions isn’t that bad, but the wood is still tearing. :?

 

[Alf]

Or is it time to get out my LV low angle jack with my 50 York bevel

Yes! Well probably a 38° for York pitch might be enough, but certainly, if you have one then now's the time. And your sharpening is more in-depth than mine so that's probably not the problem. :lol: The thing is to get the wood flat/square/to thickness, whatever you're trying to achieve, but leaving the minimum tear-out. The scraper then comes along to clean up the bits the plane made a pig's ear of. Watch out you don't get so focused on removing tear out with the scraper that you scrape a hollow in your flat board...

Cheers, Alf

 

[Nads]

Thanks all for the advice, I’ll give my LA Jack a go tonight then, do I still need to be planing with the plane on a skew or can I straighten up the plane with the gain now?

 

[Colin C]

On the skew would be your best bet

 

[MikeW]

On the skew would be your best bet

Or not. Skewing lowers the effective blade angle, most often the cause of tearout in difficult timber.

However, with the high angle blade in the LA Jack, it may make it easier to push a 50 degree blade without compromising the blade angle too much.

Take care, Mike

 

[Nads]

Sorry guys,

Now I’m a bit confused :? when do I skew the plane and when do I plane straight with the gain. I didn’t get a chance to get out in the shed yesterday but will defiantly have a go tomorrow. I thought it was best to plane with a skew, over wood that is tearing out, but as Mike says it will lower the effective blade angle?!? Any guidance?

 

[Paul Chapman]

Nads,

I think the problem is that the grain is often not uniform throughout the piece of wood and, furthermore, will vary from piece to piece. So whatever the theory the reality is that you often have to try various approaches and see what works for the particular piece of wood you are planing.

Paul

 

[bugbear]

Don't forget ash is a "special"; parts of the grain are (almost) not wood at all, and are very soft.

I have found shaping tool handles from ash can be difficult due to this (in tight areas)

You will (IMHO) NEVER get a clean cut on the soft stuff; it's like trying to get a clean cut on cotton wool.

BugBear

 

[Nads]

Thanks guys for being patient with me, coz I still pretty new to woodwork as a whole! I realise that wood is not uniform, in terms of its gain. But the last two projects (a couple of boxes) I have done with Ash I didn’t have any problems with gain tear out and was just wondering what I might be doing wrong, guess I must have been lucky with my last stock of Ash. So if I’m hearing this right, basically I just have to use different techniques, (changing bevel angle, planing skewed and straight) until I find something that works. And this might mean using more than one technique on the same face of a board, until I get the tear out to a minimum and then try to get rid of the remaining tear out using a cabinet scraper. Remembering not to concentrate on removing tear out to the point where I might hollow a section of the board. I didn’t realise that about Ash bugbear, so it might not be ALL poor planing technique. :wink:

Thanks again guys!

 

[Paul Chapman]

Don't worry Nads, we never stop learning. However long you do woodwork and just when you think you've got it sorted, along comes another awkward piece of wood and you go back to square one - at least that's how it feels to me :?

In my experience your tools, techniques and knowledge can never be too good. We are dealing with a material that is so variable that it produces constant challenges - which is why this forum is so valuable.

Good luck and I hope your current project works out well.

Paul

 

[Alf]

So if I’m hearing this right, basically I just have to use different techniques, (changing bevel angle, planing skewed and straight) until I find something that works. And this might mean using more than one technique on the same face of a board, until I get the tear out to a minimum and then try to get rid of the remaining tear out using a cabinet scraper. Remembering not to concentrate on removing tear out to the point where I might hollow a section of the board.

Yeo, that about sums it up.

Ain't woodworking great...? :roll: :lol:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Taffy Turner]

So if I’m hearing this right, basically I just have to use different techniques, (changing bevel angle, planing skewed and straight) until I find something that works. And this might mean using more than one technique on the same face of a board, until I get the tear out to a minimum and then try to get rid of the remaining tear out using a cabinet scraper. Remembering not to concentrate on removing tear out to the point where I might hollow a section of the board.

Yeo, that about sums it up.

Ain't woodworking great...? :roll: :lol:

Cheers, Alf

That's what makes it fun!

Gary

 

[Alf]

When I said "yeo", obviouslyI meant "yep" btw. One of these days I may learn to type... #-o

Cheers, Alf

 

[Nads]

Guess what took your advice, increased the bevel angle on my plane blade, and the results were great, managed to get rid of nearly all the tear out and it left a really smooth finish, so thanks guys, that’s some more great advise, you’ve given me. I love this website! I’ll let you know how I get on with the rest of the project! :wink:

Cheers

Nads

 

[builderchad]

Hi Nads,

I use Veritas bevel-up planes. I have the Jack and Smoother, both take the same width blade so they are interchangeable. I have a 25, 38 and 50 degree blade. For difficult grain the 50 degree with the bed at 12 degrees and a micro-bevel of 5 that puts the blade at 67 degrees. With the blade properly sharpened on Japanese waterstones (I go up to 6000 grit) and lapped on the back to a mirror finish I have yet to find a wood that tears-out.

A lot of people poo-poo the bevel-up planes and I even had a teacher/mentor who said I would not be able to get any good use out of them. But I find BU planes to be incredibly easy to adjust and maintain seeing as they have fewer parts. I have got mirror finishes with my smoother on all kinds of wood, soft, hard, difficult grain etc. The Jack will chomp through a board in no time and really excels at squaring up for jointing. And ofcourse, being bevel-ups they laugh in the face of end grain.

The one complaint I have seen is that you can't adjust them easily 'on-the-fly' like you can with bedrock or norris style and I have to say that is true and sometimes a little inconvienient. But you do get used to it once you get a feel for the plane and sensitivity of adjustment.

Anyway, if you have a spare few hundred squids floating about I would highly recommend them. Besides that, Veritas planes in general are worth a look - half the price of LN and pretty much the same quality.

Chad.

 

[Sharpdon]

Nads: You are in the geographical area where I believe some of the best hand planes were made, being Spiers, Mathieson, and Norris. I have used planes by each of these makers, and personally prefer the Mathieson infill planes primarily due to the tight throats, but they all work very well. With thes thick plane irons sharpened to a fine edge, they will take fine shavings with absolutely no tearout of any wood that I have used including figured Maple (birdseye and curly), Jatoba, Afrian Mahogany, Bubinga, Lacewood, and many more. The combination of a thick plane iron, good quality steel, weight for stability, and bedding of the iron on wood make these planes a joy with which to work. I do use some Stanley planes, but as soon as I feel any grain issue, I grab the Mathieson and the problem is solved. If you have an opportunity to use one, you won't let it go.