Planing a board flat - Is there literally no light when testing with a straight edge?

[Jacob]

It means thin stock will bend if the underside isn't flat.

Well well there's a surprise! So it's a good idea to have a flattish work surface? The man who discovered this must be a genius! Was this a recent development? Did he get a Nobel prize?
"Acknowledgment regarding the opposite face"

You might not have noticed as you said yourself, you work to no better than 1/32".

Pretty well yes.
This is why the imperial system more or less stops at 1/64". Below that and you can't see it.
The big woodwork and general craft trick is to fit things together and/or finish things off in such a way that it looks as though you are working with high precision, e.g. planing off the ends of through tenons, or dovetails, after they are finished, such that they are precisely well within thousandths of an inch of the drawer side etc.
Another common trick is to undercut the reverse shoulder of a M&T joint just enough to ensure that the visible face side shoulder is up tight, dead precise.
This is probably why there is such an obsession with precise measurements for those haven't quite understood craft processes.
Craft workers don't actually work to those tolerances, but they can fake it, in fact that's what it's all about!

 

[Ttrees]

Then why do you always suggest videos of those who don't adhere to those everyday things?
It's almost like you want folks to fail.

You could possibly suggest someone who does things well, on video that is, put yer money where your mouth is.
It's not as though you don't have the time.

 

[Hornbeam]

You have to adjust the tolerances you are working to according to nature of the work you are doing
1/32" may be fine in some application but will be way out in others
I have just been planing some thin stock for inlay lines into 3mm grooves. These are a 1 shaving fit. If I worked to 1/64" it would look awful.

 

[Jacob]

Then why do you always suggest videos of those who don't adhere to those everyday things?

I haven't suggested any videos.

It's almost like you want folks to fail.

Don't be silly.

You could possibly suggest someone who does things well, on video that is, put yer money where your mouth is.

I'll have a look. The trouble is - much of modern woodworking has been re-invented by all these clever smart alecs so and sos. The old geezers didn't have access to video making, even as late as Bob Wearing.
I wonder what Wearing had to say about "acknowledgment regarding the opposite face"?

 

[Citracal]

Check your straight edge is actually straight

 

[Jacob]

You have to adjust the tolerances you are working to according to nature of the work you are doing
1/32" may be fine in some application but will be way out in others
I have just been planing some thin stock for inlay lines into 3mm grooves. These are a 1 shaving fit. If I worked to 1/64" it would look awful.

Exactly. You say "These are a 1 shaving fit." I take it you are not working to a dimension but to make them fit, which is what I was trying to describe above.

 

[Lefley]

It means thin stock will bend if the underside isn't flat.
You might not have noticed as you said yourself, you work to no better than 1/32".

I work to a 1/32 when framing a house getting ready for drywall. Lol. If your doing dovetails or inlays or any fine woodworking other than rough framing, if your striving for a 1/32 I'd say you're just starting out!

 

[Jacob]

I work to a 1/32 when framing a house getting ready for drywall. Lol. If your doing dovetails or inlays or any fine woodworking other than rough framing, if your striving for a 1/32 I'd say you're just starting out!

No you've missed the point. In any case you don't have a tape measure marked in 1/32", so unless you are using digital laser devices you can't possibly work to 1/32".
DTs are a good example of craft process, as distinct from precision engineering processes:
You can cut your pin holes (tails) free-hand and imprecisely, as long as they are reasonable square across the end of the board, and regularly spaced enough. You then mark from them to the pins with a precise knife line (or a craft knife chisel blade which is what I use) and with practice can produce a miraculously perfect fit.
In theory the engineering approach would be to machine both parts precisely so that they would then fit together without any intervening process. Although in practice engineering will involve craft processes too, as and when necessary.
Craft work involves being really "crafty" .
Getting back to our OPs prob - better "precision engineering" isn't the solution - it might help but basically he needs better craft skills.

 

[Hornbeam]

Getting back to our OPs prob - better "precision engineering" isn't the solution - he needs better craft skills.

Jacob in some aspects you are correct as we do adjust joints, inlay lines etc to fit.
It does make life a lot easier if everything nearly fits before having to make adjustments so learning to plane timber flat and square is a fundamental skill which is closer to engineering than craft. The better your starting components the easier the crafty bit is
Take edge joining 2 boards. If they were engineered you could just glue then edge to edge. In practice it doesnt matter if both edges are out by 1 degree off square provided the mate up correctly. This is why some people advocate edge planing joints doing the 2 surfaces together

 

[Jacob]

............if everything nearly fits before having to make adjustments so learning to plane timber flat and square is a fundamental skill which is closer to engineering than craft. The better your starting components the easier the crafty bit is

Definitely!

Take edge joining 2 boards. If they were engineered you could just glue then edge to edge. In practice it doesnt matter if both edges are out by 1 degree off square provided the mate up correctly. This is why some people advocate edge planing joints doing the 2 surfaces together

I always edge joint for table tops by matching each joint together individually - by the very trad craft process of "offering up" and then adjusting to fit, either or both of them. Then marking them to make sure they also get glued together!
This is much quicker and easier than aiming for perfect straight and plumb faces first.

 

[John Brown]

This seems to have turned into a p!ssing contest about accuracy of work.

 

[Jacob]

This seems to have turned into a p!ssing contest about accuracy of work.

No not really. It's about craft processes as compared to engineering processes.

 

[hlvd]

Jacob in some aspects you are correct as we do adjust joints, inlay lines etc to fit.
It does make life a lot easier if everything nearly fits before having to make adjustments so learning to plane timber flat and square is a fundamental skill which is closer to engineering than craft. The better your starting components the easier the crafty bit is
Take edge joining 2 boards. If they were engineered you could just glue then edge to edge. In practice it doesnt matter if both edges are out by 1 degree off square provided the mate up correctly. This is why some people advocate edge planing joints doing the 2 surfaces together

Doing two boards at once isn’t a very good way as it relies on your ability to get those edges perfectly straight, slightly out and the gap’s doubled when both are put together.

 

[Jacob]

Doing two boards at once isn’t a very good way as it relies on your ability to get those edges perfectly straight, slightly out and the gap’s doubled when both are put together.

Yes it's a bit of a myth IMHO.

 

[Jacob]

I haven't suggested any videos.

Don't be silly.

I'll have a look. The trouble is - much of modern woodworking has been re-invented by all these clever smart alecs so and sos. The old geezers didn't have access to video making, even as late as Bob Wearing.
I wonder what Wearing had to say about "acknowledgment regarding the opposite face"?

Checked out Wearing. No hint of "acknowledgment regarding the opposite face".
Actually his planing advice in "The Essential Woodworker" is pretty normal, with just one or two quirks of his own.
Flipping through the book and you get to see where Charlesworth found most of his ideas.
"The Essential Woodworker" was 1988 which was an interesting time as most of modern woodworking and sharpening had hardly been invented. He recommends the eclipse jig for "beginners" and for small chisels, but otherwise he is very traditional.
No mention anywhere of "turbo torsion boxes of 1000 dogs" etc His bench design is very trad just like Paul Sellers.
He goes a bit bonkers in his two later books with pages and pages of jigs and gadgets, but basically fairly harmless and it's make your own, not gadget salesmanship.
Everything was very different only 25+ years ago!
https://www.classichandtools.com/the-essential-woodworker/p783

 

[thetyreman]

Doing two boards at once isn’t a very good way as it relies on your ability to get those edges perfectly straight, slightly out and the gap’s doubled when both are put together.

I found this as well, prefer planing it one board at a time.

 

[Arthur Dent]

I think my first post on here certainly created plenty of discussion

For what it's worth, the board that initiated the post is now glued together and will make a lovely wee vise jaw.. as long as I drill it correctly lol

 

[mwinfrance]

I think my first post on here certainly created plenty of discussion

For what it's worth, the board that initiated the post is now glued together and will make a lovely wee vise jaw.. as long as I drill it correctly lol

Wait til you see what happens when there is a post about sharpening

 

[Arthur Dent]

Wait til you see what happens when there is a post about sharpening

I was going to mention something about sharpening too, maybe leave it for a bit my poor phone is not used to this many notifications

 

[worker]

I think my first post on here certainly created plenty of discussion

For what it's worth, the board that initiated the post is now glued together and will make a lovely wee vise jaw.. as long as I drill it correctly lol

How close did you get to no light showing at all? I've often asked myself the same question as you did in your first post and struggled to get there.