Plane choice?

[colinc]

Hi,

After having spent some time using my homemade Krenov style plane described here: first-shopmade-plane-t115661.html I have discovered (or more accurately rediscovered) the joys of using hand tools and realised how much difference a good blade makes.

However, whilst I think that making planes is fun and satisfying, it is more realistic for me to spend my time using commercially available planes to make furniture so I want to buy rather than make.

Currently, I want to buy a decent shoulder plane. I did visit our nearest Axminster store today to take a look and did try to buy a medium sized Veritas shoulder plane, but it turned out they didn't have a blade in stock so I left with a few other goodies but no plane. On reflection, I am wondering if that was perhaps a good thing as am now wondering if a bigger size might be better.

I am also wondering if the Quangsheng shoulder planes from Workshop Heaven might be a good bet at quite a saving. To be honest, I looked at the Luban planes at Axminster, but some of those on show looked quite poorly finished, for example the knurling on several fittings looked rough and half done. I understand both lines are sourced from the same manufacturer so that put me off a bit.

So really I have two questions about the shoulder plane, what size and from where? In terms of usage, I am just making small pieces of furniture and simply want to improve the fit of my mortice and tenon joints. The shoulder plane wouldn't be something I would use everyday.

I would also like a better plane to replace my Marples No. 5. That is my most used plane but I know it can be bettered. I have looked at the various 5 and 5-1/2 planes available, and it looks like the Quangsheng planes are a lot cheaper than the premium brands. My dilemma is that I don't want to buy cheaper in the short term and regret it later. I do though want value for money and am not a professional woodworker.

Advice please.......

Colin

 

[custard]

I did visit our nearest Axminster store today to take a look and did try to buy a medium sized Veritas shoulder plane, but it turned out they didn't have a blade in stock so I left with a few other goodies but no plane. On reflection, I am wondering if that was perhaps a good thing as am now wondering if a bigger size might be better.

I am also wondering if the Quangsheng shoulder planes from Workshop Heaven might be a good bet at quite a saving. To be honest, I looked at the Luban planes at Axminster, but some of those on show looked quite poorly finished, for example the knurling on several fittings looked rough and half done. I understand both lines are sourced from the same manufacturer so that put me off a bit.

The best size of shoulder plane for you is the size that you personally feel most comfortable with. I trained in the British tradition of cabinet making which tends towards a larger shoulder plane, it's an expensive tool so until very recently most makers would only ever own one. The logic went that you can do both small and large work with a large shoulder plane, so get a large one and be done with it. Personally I also prefer the heft of the larger tool, and the way you can use that weight to bully cleanly through end grain. But if you don't have the strength in your hands then you may be better suited to a medium sized shoulder plane, for furniture scale projects you can get by pretty well with either.

But either large or medium, I wouldn't risk buying an economy shoulder plane. It's a complex tool to manufacture, and if the engineering isn't first class the tool will be severely compromised and there's nothing the average user can do to correct it. In particular there must be perfect alignment between the top surface of the frog and the sole, any twist whatsoever between these two surfaces and the shoulder plane will be little more than a paper weight.

 

[user22161]

I have looked at the various 5 and 5-1/2 planes available, and it looks like the Quangsheng planes are a lot cheaper than the premium brands. My dilemma is that I don't want to buy cheaper in the short term and regret it later. I do though want value for money and am not a professional woodworker.

Advice please.......

Colin

I only have one Quangsheng plane, the 62 low angle jack. Very happy with quality out of the box.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Hi,

After having spent some time using my homemade Krenov style plane described here: first-shopmade-plane-t115661.html I have discovered (or more accurately rediscovered) the joys of using hand tools and realised how much difference a good blade makes.

However, whilst I think that making planes is fun and satisfying, it is more realistic for me to spend my time using commercially available planes to make furniture so I want to buy rather than make.

Currently, I want to buy a decent shoulder plane. I did visit our nearest Axminster store today to take a look and did try to buy a medium sized Veritas shoulder plane, but it turned out they didn't have a blade in stock so I left with a few other goodies but no plane. On reflection, I am wondering if that was perhaps a good thing as am now wondering if a bigger size might be better.

I am also wondering if the Quangsheng shoulder planes from Workshop Heaven might be a good bet at quite a saving. To be honest, I looked at the Luban planes at Axminster, but some of those on show looked quite poorly finished, for example the knurling on several fittings looked rough and half done. I understand both lines are sourced from the same manufacturer so that put me off a bit.
n

Hi - you're mistaken about the Luban tools. Axminster Rider planes are made by Soba tools in India. Axi. don't sell Luban/QS tools.

Luban is a branding applied to Chinese-made tools which are also branded as Quangsheng (sold by Workshop Heaven and Rutlands, the latter selling a slightly lower spec. in some cases) or Wood River (sold in US but available in the UK) - these all tend to be much better quality than the Indian-made tools.

The Chinese factory - http://www.qstools.com/

The Indian factory - http://beta.shobha-india.com/category/w ... ng-tools-1

I'm fairly sure that the Quansheng factory supplies Dictum in Germany with tools sold under their own name.

The Chinese-made Quangshen/Luban tools are pretty much indistinguishable - for my money anyway - in terms of design and quality of materials and fit/finish from Lie-Nielsen tools. The Indian-made tools, as you've seen, are not at the same level of quality in terms of design or materials - some are useable (I have a decent 311) - some are not. Veritas tools, on the other hand, have innovative design features (which are usually, but not always, an improvement on traditional designs) and exemplary quality of design/materials and manufacture.

Don't discount the option of a rebating block plane as a possible alternative to a shoulder plane. e.g.
https://www.workshopheaven.com/quangshe ... ype-3.html
https://www.dictum.com/en/dictum-planes ... ade-703408

Cheers, W2S

PS Or a #10 !

 

[shed9]

My £0.02 worth........

The QS planes whilst very good tools for the money are no Lie Nielsen or Veritas. I have a fair few Lie Nielsens and a couple of QS bench planes. There is a difference and it's noticeable in my opinion. I'm not sure the difference in quality would warrant the difference in price for most (bench, block, etc) but for a shoulder plane I think it's a risk to not get the best you can afford. The QS planes are not as refined as I would expect for their price point in my opinion, I've never seen consistency in the quality of the castings other than in their bronze planes. I've held identical QS planes with separate, albeit very very minor, issues. Not a problem really but it suggests quality issues for me.

Personally I'd plumb for either the 073 Lie Nielsen or the large Veritas. The Lie Nielsen will likely hold its value more if that is a consideration but both will serve you well for your lifespan.

In regards to the bench plane query, again I'd plumb for the premium plane. I have a 5 1/2 Lie Nielsen and it's just a joy to use. Yes you can use a QS equivalent and it will achieve the same outcome but you will enjoy using the Lie Nielsen more and surely that has a value. You may (possibly) always wonder if you go the QS route whereas you will not regret buying Lie Nielsen.

 

[user22161]

My £0.02 worth........You may (possibly) always wonder if you go the QS route whereas you will not regret buying Lie Nielsen.

On the other hand, for hobby use and being a bit careful with my pension, I would regret spending more than necessary for ultimate quality when I would have been able to buy something else with the difference in price

 

[shed9]

My £0.02 worth........You may (possibly) always wonder if you go the QS route whereas you will not regret buying Lie Nielsen.

On the other hand, for hobby use and being a bit careful with my pension, I would regret spending more than necessary for ultimate quality when I would have been able to buy something else with the difference in price

Whilst that's relevant to your circumstance and I fully appreciate that it's not relevant to what the OP asked, hence my comment. I'd also add this isn't ultimate quality territory either, close enough in the context of this thread but are are some silly price tags out there in the land of planes.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

My £0.02 worth........

The QS planes whilst very good tools for the money are no Lie Nielsen or Veritas. I have a fair few Lie Nielsens and a couple of QS bench planes. There is a difference and it's noticeable in my opinion. I'm not sure the difference in quality would warrant the difference in price for most (bench, block, etc) but for a shoulder plane I think it's a risk to not get the best you can afford. The QS planes are not as refined as I would expect for their price point in my opinion, I've never seen consistency in the quality of the castings other than in their bronze planes. I've held identical QS planes with separate, albeit very very minor, issues. Not a problem really but it suggests quality issues for me.

Personally I'd plumb for either the 073 Lie Nielsen or the large Veritas. The Lie Nielsen will likely hold its value more if that is a consideration but both will serve you well for your lifespan.

In regards to the bench plane query, again I'd plumb for the premium plane. I have a 5 1/2 Lie Nielsen and it's just a joy to use. Yes you can use a QS equivalent and it will achieve the same outcome but you will enjoy using the Lie Nielsen more and surely that has a value. You may (possibly) always wonder if you go the QS route whereas you will not regret buying Lie Nielsen.

Just as a rough yardstick:
A LN No4 costs about £300
A Veritas No4 costs about £260
A QS No4 costs about £130
An old Stanley No4 costs about £30

They all get the job done. All are a pleasure to own and use, in their own way.

I have old stanleys, I have QSs, I have several Veritas and LN tools (but no LN or Veritas bench planes, although I have tried them). I can't tell the difference, in use, between a QS and an LN bench plane - or tbh in most cases the old Stanleys (other than that: LN probably has least 'play' in the depth adjuster; the new ones tend to be heavier which is both good and bad; and things like PMV11 steel - which can be retrofitted - is a genuine step forward).

Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice, for me, QS/Veritas hit the quality/utility/cost sweetspot in most cases but I'm completely happy to own and use tools - depending on what they are and what I need from them - from boot sales, or suppliers like Faithfull or Screwfix/Erbauer. I personally can't justify spending more on LN gear, in most cases, much as I respect what they do and how they do it.

 

[ED65]

FWIW Colin, just on size I was listening to a Fine Woodworking podcast thingy just the other day where this was one of the questions raised and Mike Pekovich's opinion was if you have to get only one, go big.

Reasons given were the larger size allows it to power through the cut better, it's more versatile since obviously it can do both large and small jobs (same arguments as used with planes in general really). Plus I think it was mentioned that they're less fiddly to set up and use than the opposite end of the spectrum, and easier honing might have been brought up too.

 

[colinc]

Thank you everyone who who took the time to reply, there is a lot of good advice there, I have read every word. I have also read quite a lot of stuff off the web and watched a few YouTube videos, although I suspect a lot of those were created by people with their own agenda.

My decision is that I will decomplicate the issue and just buy the shoulder plane for now as that it what my immediate need/requirement is. I have never regretted choosing quality over economy (the current wife for example!) so I am buying the Veritas if I can find one with a blade. The reason was that I did handle both Lie Nielson and Veritas yesterday and the latter seemed easier for my hands to grip comfortably.

Having listened to advice here, I will buy the large one instead of the medium that I failed to get yesterday. Thanks for that, I see the logic.

As an aside, because I was waiting to use the shoulder plane to progess my current project, I decided to do a bit of 'fettling' and careful sharpening of my Marples No. 5. I then did a bit of a comparison against my 50p Krenov style smoother (with the £50 Hock blade) on various types of wood. The Hock blade must be the key because the homemade plane cuts so much better. However, it was easier to work accurately with the longer and more familiar steel plane, so I may use 15" of timber offcuts for my next attempt at a wooden one. It is tempting to put a better blade in the Marples, but whilst I can afford it, I think I should invest in a better plane.

Thanks again,

Colin

 

[colinc]

Hi,

At the last minite, I decided that I liked the medium sized plane so much I bought it anyway. This weekend I made some cupboard doors and put it to work, concluding that I don't know how I managed without it. No regrets, the medium size works well for me.

Last week I also took delivery of a Quangsheng no 5-1/2. This was a bit of a story. The first that arrived had a couple of minor (and I mean tiny) inclusions in the body casting, nothing that would affect it in use, but I queried if it was to be expected. The answer was a clear no and a replacement was dispatched the same day.mToday I found time to hone the blade, not perfectly, just to try it. I have to say that I was blown away by my initial try out. I cannot praise Workshop Heaven's service too highly.

I fear that I am at the begining of a hand plane journey.....

Colin

 

[Farmer Giles]

I'm glad you found the right plane Colin

Just a general comment, nobody mentioned Clifton planes , I just wondered why? I have their 3110 combination shoulder plane and its a joy to use, also their no6, also really good and competitively priced compared to Veritas and Lie Nielsen. And made in Sheffield, or was the last time I looked. I'm surprised nobody mentioned them as a candidate.

Cheers
Andy

 

[shed9]

I fear that I am at the begining of a hand plane journey.....

This is very highly likely..........

Enjoy !