Pipe Clamps. Worth the investment????

[patrick]

I need to replace my cheap & nasty Alu sash clamps. Fortunately I only bought 3 cheapos and quickly realised the error of my ways.
Unfortunately I have to make that dire choice between quality/quantity and budjet. I am training as a cabinet maker so these are going to be an investment.
Pipe clamps have caught my eye as the are a versatile combination, have a great head racking system, have bullet proof pipe for a sash and there are a number of heads around for the 3/4" pipe stock. Does anyone know of any serious down sides to pipe Vs traditional sash???

I had the budjet head from Axminster in mind

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axminster-Heavy-Duty-Pipe-Clamp-Set-32094.htm

Does anyone know how these perform and how they square up to the pony clamps?

I have also found these other heads for those interested or with an opinion on any of them.

http://www.fine-tools.com/G300111.htm Dakota I think

http://www.irwin.com/irwin/consumer/jhtml/detail.jhtml?prodId=IrwinProd100032
Not available in the UK by the looks of things

 

[jasonB]

I've got both No 50 & 56 Pony heads and find them very good. If you get black pipe from your local plumbers merchant it will be better and cheaper than the pre cut lengths from Axminster. If you want to be able to extend the pipes then you will need to be able to cut new threads on the ends.

Not found any real downsides to them but they are a lot easier to use as the fixed head can easily be moved - no pins/bolts to fiddle with half way through a complicated glue up :wink:

Tilgear often have deals if you buy 2 or 4 sets of heads.

I have heard reports of the locking plates breaking on the cheaper copies.

Jason

 

[Scrit]

Jason

For my benefit is that 1in black pipe and is the thread a 3/4in BSPT?

Scrit

 

[lurker]

Like Jason, I'm a fan of Ponys which I bought in merica for next to nothing for one of the barns over there.
I find them very versatile, can't understand why they don't catch on over here.
I have a plumber mate who got me a big pile of ready threaded pipe.

I drilled the faces and added a hard wood pad to mine.
I even use it as an extra bench vice at times

Was planning to give the Axminster look alikes a try but have heard mixed messages of their reliability

 

[dchenard]

I don't like pipe clamps. Period.

They dent the wood unless one puts shims between clamp head and wood (or installs pads), they sometimes slip on the pipe, head castings are often not parallel, and the heads have a knack for turning on you when clamping an assembly. Maybe the new models by Irwin and Rockler, with their integrated feet are better in that respect. In any case the last thing you want to do is fight with clamps when putting an assembly together :x

Furthermore, they're not even cheap, unless one is willing to go with the economy models, that are the worst in all aspects described above. Taking Axminster's prices, a Pony 50 with a piece of pipe will set you back about £20. Bessey K-Body clamps solve all the above problems, and sell for £28 for a 24 incher, not bad is you're considering the clamp purchase as an investment.

If budget is really tight, you could make do with the Uniklamps from Bessey, similar to the K-Body but smaller, less expensive (£13 for a 24" clamp). One doesn't need heavy duty clamps for everything...

Pipe clamps are versatile allright, and inexpensive in the longer sizes. I do have a couple of them sitting somewhere in my shop, but I haven't used them in years :roll:

HTH,

DC

 

[Mike.C]

Hi Patrick, I have some of the Axminster ones and I find them to be very good. As Jason says you are better off buying your own pipes. I found a plummer who sold me different lengths and cut the treads for me. This way you will have any size of clamp you need. If you can afford the Pony then go for them. But IMHO if you do go for the Axminster you will not be disappointed.

On the other hand if you have deep pockets then you will do no better then the Bessey K-Body. The only problem with them is, once you have used them you will want more, because no other clamp can match them. My mistake was buying was some from Axminster when they were going real, real cheap and now I am hooked.

Let us know what you go for.

Cheers

Mike

 

[jasonB]

Scrit you need to get 3/4" black pipe often refered to as "Barrel"

The 3/4" is the bore and the actual OD is something like 1 & 1/16" not got my Zeuz table within reach. Thread is as you say 3/4" BSP, straight or taper thread will be OK.

Jason

 

[Scrit]

Thanks Jason. I'm sufficiently encouraged that I'll probably go that way next time I want to extend my cramping collection.

I know there are people who favour Bessey K-bodies, but personally I've always found them a bit rich for my blood. Some glue-ups can require a dozen or more sash cramps, times maybe 5 or 6 items to cramp up and that's why you probably won't see many K-bodies in professional shops. Ever. Unfortunately they're just too expensive and I for one can't see that the deliver any advantages over alternative methods

Scrit

 

[DomValente]

Thanks Jason. I'm sufficiently encouraged that I'll probably go that way next time I want to extend my cramping collection.

I know there are people who favour Bessey K-bodies, but personally I've always found them a bit rich for my blood. Some glue-ups can require a dozen or more sash cramps, times maybe 5 or 6 items to cramp up and that's why you probably won't see many K-bodies in professional shops. Ever. Unfortunately they're just too expensive and I for one can't see that the deliver any advantages over alternative methods

Scrit

I think the one benefit is the length and rigid parralelness of the clamps.
The disadvantages of the pony clamps is that they don't sit flat on the workbench and the end piece can twist out of true just when you don't want it to, but you can buy stands for them, still like them though, especially as you can make the things up to 12 ft. long.

Dom

 

[dchenard]

Thanks Jason. I'm sufficiently encouraged that I'll probably go that way next time I want to extend my cramping collection.

I know there are people who favour Bessey K-bodies, but personally I've always found them a bit rich for my blood. Some glue-ups can require a dozen or more sash cramps, times maybe 5 or 6 items to cramp up and that's why you probably won't see many K-bodies in professional shops. Ever. Unfortunately they're just too expensive and I for one can't see that the deliver any advantages over alternative methods

Scrit

I think the one benefit is the length and rigid parralelness of the clamps.
The disadvantages of the pony clamps is that they don't sit flat on the workbench and the end piece can twist out of true just when you don't want it to, but you can buy stands for them, still like them though, especially as you can make the things up to 12 ft. long.

Dom

Agree with you Dom.

Scrit, this is not the first time I've heard that mention (of few to no K-Bodies in pro shops). Possibly this is, if we follow your scenario, because pro shops, operating in the scale you suggest, do have many people working together on a glue-up. Two people can "operate" pipe clamps much more easily than a single operator. The Besseys lend themselves to one person operation much more easily. I used to swear at my pipe clamps, now with Besseys glue-ups are a lot less stressful.

Just an hypothesis,

DC

 

[Nick W]

I bought some of the Axminster heads and pipes. First time I used them half of the gripper plates broke. Axminster, being Axminster, replaced them foc. I haven't used them much since, so I can't judge if it was just bad luck (or my superhuman strength hah!). What others say about them slipping out of alignment at critical times is very true though. I shan't be buying any more.

Another option is the URKO system sold by Tilgear, though they are b****y heavy.

 

[DomValente]

I bought some of the Axminster heads and pipes. First time I used them half of the gripper plates broke. Axminster, being Axminster, replaced them foc. I haven't used them much since, so I can't judge if it was just bad luck (or my superhuman strength hah!). What others say about them slipping out of alignment at critical times is very true though. I shan't be buying any more.

Another option is the URKO system sold by Tilgear, though they are b****y heavy.

Nick, the pony clamps are better quality than the Axminster.

Dom

 

[Scrit]

Possibly this is, if we follow your scenario, because pro shops, operating in the scale you suggest, do have many people working together on a glue-up. Two people can "operate" pipe clamps much more easily than a single operator.

It's true that a sash or T-bar cramp can be operated more easily by two than one - but even when I've been in that situation (having others in the shop, that is) I've often worked alone 'coz everyone else was too busy doing other things, or it was going to take too long to try explaining things...... To me it's more a matter of economics. I know that in muy shop there are somewhere between 150 and 200 cramps - T-bar, sash, G-, F-, QR, etc Even then there's still not enough at times...... :shock:

Scrit

 

[llangatwgnedd]

I have read on here that the clutch plates on the Axminster pipe clamps are total rubbish.

If anyone goes down the pipe clamp route, I do recommend the American Pony Camps, but who am I?
Just the thing for over sized doors. Thats my first of many sets of Pony heads and Axminster pipe kit.

The result with pine staining BTW

 

[Waka]

SP

Nice looking project there, you've got to be more forthcoming in showing your work.

 

[Mike.C]

Nick W,

What others say about them slipping out of alignment at critical times is very true though. I shan't be buying any more.

Maybe I have been lucky, but my Axminster clamps have never done this, and so I stand by what I have said IMHO for the money, Axminster pipe clamps are very good.

As for the Bessey K-Body, yes if you need 150 plus clamps in a pro workshop, then I can see that the price would be a big factor, but for a hobby workshop again IMHO you cannot buy better.

That said, if these JET clamps are as good as they seem to be (slide-glide trigger etc) then they might very well give Bessey a run for their money.
http://www.woodworkersshop.com/Jet_Parallel_Clamps.htm

Cheers

Mike

 

[Mike-W]

I started with Record Sash bar clamps (model 135) in 18” & 24”lengths and then got some of the Pony Clamps when I was in the US, my brother provided me with the pipe, these clamps have 18” capacity which I find to be an ideal size, If I need longer I would get some longer bits of pipe. I find the Pony clamps easer to use than Sash clamps as there are no pins to fall out when setting up and mine have feet that sit on the bench, the only downside that I find is that the Pony clamps are a good deal heaver when waving them around (clamping the top of a frame for example) than the Record Sash bars.
I would also say you can probably clamp the Sash bars up a bit more without slipping if you feel you need to, although the Pony’s will clamp up more than enough for normal glue ups.

Mike

 

[MooreToolsPlease]

I have about a dozen of the Axminster pipe clamp heads.
They are perfectly adequate for most work, only complaints I have are that on gluing up cabinet doors then tended to raise the joints which was a nuisance to clean up afterwards.
Some glue blocks that taper each side down to 5mm soon fixed that though.
The pipe was quite hard to find, no one seemed to know what I was on about.
I eventually found a pipe centre, they are a part of the Wolseley group who do building centre, plumbing centre etc and I managed to get it for £4.04 a metre

 

[lurker]

This thread prompted me to give the Axminster clone a try.
They arrived yesterday with other goodies

So far as I can see they are at least as good as the Ponys, actually the jaw is slighty deeper and the casting a bit bigger. Time will tell regards the Clutch plates (I'll keep the delivery note just in case).

If you can source the pipe for free then they are as cheap as chips.