Petition for quality saw files...

[rileytoolworks]

If you're frustrated with the quality of saw files, have a look here....
https://www.change.org/petitions/saw-fi ... g-handsaws

All the best.
Adam.

 

[TobyC]

Cool, I was going to post that, but I wasn't sure about the forum rules, or which forum to put it in.
I'm signed up, maybe someone will listen.

Toby

 

[rileytoolworks]

Hopefully mate.

All the best.
Adam.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

The petition being American, has it to do with the lack of good saw files in America, rather than the rest of the world? The American file manufacturer, Nicholson, has moved production to Mexico, with the reported loss in quality. But is Europe badly off? I don't do a lot of saw sharpening, but want to do more. The few saw files I have seem to be fine quality, though more experienced saw sharpeners might advise me different. They are Bacho and Grobert files, which are readily available.

What saw files do others use and what is good and bad about them? One thing I would like to know is, what size file do people use for dovetail saws? XX slim is advertised for 15 pip, but will that do smaller teeth too, my dovetail saws are 20ppi. Can't find slimmer files easily for this purpose, myself. I tend to use Japanese saws for dovetailing, which is why my western dovetail saw is the only saw I've not had a need to sharpen yet.

Mike.

 

[Harbo]

The person instigating the petition is Australian and the problem is also with Bacho and Swiss ones too.
Production is being farmed out to cheaper labour countries and quality is diminishing?

Rod

 

[Tom K]

Rod beat me to it. The petitioner also states he is talking to a French manufacturer about the smaller files so the benefit may be available to us in the UK

 

[woodbrains]

The person instigating the petition is Australian and the problem is also with Bacho and Swiss ones too.
Production is being farmed out to cheaper labour countries and quality is diminishing?

Rod

Oops, sorry, didn't mean t upset the Aussie. So many of the petitioners are American, hence the mistake.

I know Bacho moved production to Portugal years ago, but their hand files seem top notch to me. Are their saw files lacking? Grobert and Vallorbe, it appears combined forces a while ago too, but Lie Nielsen sharpen their saws with Grobet files, surely these are OK.

Mike

 

[MIGNAL]

I used a 5 inch extra slim to 'touch up' a 25 TPI Zona saw. Seems to have worked very well although I'd hate to address uneven teeth at that TPI. I don't think I will bother with anything above 16 TPI if it needs tooth shaping.
All the saw files that I have are Grobet. I think I have 10 of them although a few are now past using them for filing saws. Even those intended for high TPI seem to have more aggressive teeth than you would find on a good quality needle file. That's obviously deliberate. A couple of mine have a slight wavy edge (in places) to them. These have not been used. Perhaps it's that aspect that they are complaining about. All the other types of Grobet files that I own seem to be of very good quality.

 

[woodbrains]

Thanks Mignal,

Logically the smallest file I have will do my dovetail saw, then. I guess it is intended for 15 ppi and greater. I will have a closer look with a magnifier, to see if it is good quality.

Mike.

 

[bugbear]

Hello,

The petition being American, has it to do with the lack of good saw files in America, rather than the rest of the world? The American file manufacturer, Nicholson, has moved production to Mexico, with the reported loss in quality. But is Europe badly off? I don't do a lot of saw sharpening, but want to do more. The few saw files I have seem to be fine quality, though more experienced saw sharpeners might advise me different. They are Bacho and Grobert files, which are readily available.

Grobert are available worldwide, so I assume they're being deemed poor by the initiators of this petition.

BugBear

 

[Dangermouse]

I have several old files I use for my saws, purchased from car boots and must be a lot of years old, but they do the job very well and if they get a bit worn, they can be freshened up with an acid dip. Another example of how things have cheapened over the years and all we get these days is nasty rubbish from the far east. Even if you pay through the nose for a so called premium file etc, you usually see the words "made in China" on the box.

 

[Vann]

Grobert are available worldwide, so I assume they're being deemed poor by the initiators of this petition.

These's a very long, ongoing thread on the Aussie woodworkforum - which, IIRC, quickly relegated Grobert to the "poor" category.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Brit (Andy)]

The problem with the saw files available today is that they are not consistent in their edge profile, their tapered shape, or their hardness, even from the same manufacturer. Bahco and Grobet Swiss are about the best that are currently available, but that doesn't mean they are good enough. The petition that Brett has started and which is now on many woodworking forums around the globe is really to say to the maufacturers that we want quality of design and manufacture, consistency and reliability, all at a realistic price point. We don't expect to buy two files from the same manufacturer, one of which will sharpen quite a few saws before it goes dull, whilst the teeth on the other one will crumble away after just a few strokes.

This is a global issue that affects all woodworkers whether you sharpen your own saws or not, because even the people you send your saws out to have to use the same files as those of us who do sharpen our own saws. Having to use crappy saw files is the biggest hindrance to people learning the art of saw sharpening. I for one would not like to see the art die and therefore I fully support this petition so that the next generation can hopefully enjoy the benefits of sharpening their own saws too. Saw sharpening isn't dying, it is growing as more and more woodworkers recognise the enjoyment that comes from using hand tools.

If you care about maintaining the quality of tools, please support what Brett is trying to achieve here. Please don't underestimate the power of the internet. Together we CAN make a difference.

 

[Brit (Andy)]

I would also add that most of the saw makers and saw doctors that you are probably familiar with from the magazines, forums and blogs are behind this too. Brett has sent them all a survey which they have duly returned. Brett has done an enormous amount of research on this, often at his own expense. He has looked at the design and quality of saw files that used to be available down to the smallest details and is working on a new design that incorporates all of the best features. The manufacturer he is in discussions with in France has a reputation for high quality and will listen if enough people get behind this petition.

 

[Dangermouse]

I hate to put a damper on this petition thing, but I don't think it will make a blind bit of difference to any file company. What makes a difference is their profit and loss accounts. so if you don't like the file don't buy it and if enough people don't buy it and the profit takes a nose dive, then things will change. The only companies who would take any notice of a woodworker talking to them about this is one that made bespoke files as a few off and would charge accordingly.

 

[MIGNAL]

If there is enough interest someone will come along and start making saw files to a very high quality. No different than the premium Plane market really. I'm sure the petition will have some effect.
Just don't expect them to be the same price as the current Grobet and Bahco, perhaps triple the price. Then again if they last longer they may work out to be around the same price.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

Unfortunately, if we stop buying from one manufacturer, they will just stop making the product, rather than improve it. If all saw files are poor, then we have no alternatives, we just cannot sharpen our saws any more. The only way we could effect a change, is to swap to buying from the good manufacturer, and the poor ones will improve their files to take the market share back. If there are no good manufacturers, we are snookered. Perhaps if this French file maker comes up with the goods, we will have a fighting chance.

Incidentally, I just found out that the Nicholson files listed in the Axminster catalogue are made in Switzerland as well as Grobert and Vallorbe. I wonder if they all come from the same factory , which would explain universal poor quality. ( if poor quality is the case)

Mike.

 

[Brit (Andy)]

Personally, I wouldn't mind paying more if I can rely on the product to do the job well and last longer. I understand that companies need to make a profit, but I've also had enough of buying tools that don't do what they're supposed to do, even when you first take them out the packet. I for one am not prepared to just roll over and accept the status quo without even trying to effect a change.

 

[MIGNAL]

Has anyone got a new old stock saw file from yesteryear? Obviously at one time there existed quality British saw file makers. I see there are some NOS files on Ebay listed as being by Peter Stubs. I just don't have the need for pippin files and I guess they would make for strange shaped saw teeth. Anyway, it would be interesting to compare a saw file from say the 50's to one being made now.

PS. Who is the French file maker? Do Logier or Auriou make files or both files and rasps?

 

[Brit (Andy)]

Just for information...

There are NO saw files made in Swizterland anymore...none whatsoever.
There are only 4 file factories left in Europe: 2 in Switzerland, 1 in Portugal and 1 in France.

The two in Switzerland (Vallorbe and Honauer) make precision files, but they don't make saw files.
The one in Portugal (Tome Fetiera) make saw files for the likes of Bahco.

Nicholson files are now made in Mexico and Brazil.