Perfect way to clean a water stone.

[Cheshirechappie]

All the really skilled people I've met in life had no need to boast - their skill was obvious. I've also met very few indeed who felt the need to denigrate the skills and abilities of others. When you develop skill in something, it sort of dawns on you that there are an awful lot of other skills in the world of which you know very little.

My ex-next door neighbour packed in his job in a woodyard to set himself up fitting out steel narrow-boat hulls, starting from an empty shell. He now has more work than he can handle, just by word of mouth. He's completely self taught. Very nice guy, too.

For anybody who might be under the illusion that David Charlesworth's furniture is 'simple rectilinear', I'd invite them to do some research - then try to replicate some of the pieces David has made over the years, using the woods he tends to use, and to the standard of fit and finish he achieves; you will find they're not that simple. Chris Schwarz would probably not claim to be a skilled woodworker (though he's certainly not completely incompetent); his real skill lies in finding good information and presenting it to others - running a publishing house is a different sort of skill, but it's one that has been of great benefit to many woodworkers, amateur and professional.

As for 'just having a bit of fun', since when has going around gratuitously insulting people been regarded as acceptable social practice?

Bob - you did the right thing. Discussing ideas - even unfashionable or unpopular ones - is fine, but that can be done without recourse to rudeness.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I've just woken up to a moment of clarity. This banning is about values and standards. The individual concerned, likely enough did have amazing skills in his armoury and as such, they're a bit tantalizing, a bit different and on some level, attractive to us wood workers. I get the comment about that, I felt it too. But there's another more important layer to this, a priority which is "a priori" to the issue of skills and that's the issue already raised, respect and manners/courtesy. I'm afraid that to me, those are what politicians would call a "red line" and therefore the skills issue doesn't even get the light of day if the "person" fails the test of having enough self respect to meter that out to others. I think it's important that forum members understand that values are important and that good values are even more so.

Edit: Cheshire - your post crossed in the ether with mine, and I entirely agree with your sentiments about genuinely skilled folk realising they will never know it all. What we witnessed with said individual was nothing more complicated than a personality flaw.

 

[memzey]

I was the first one to call him out on his rudeness and lack of courtesy so I of course agree with the criticism levelled against Palmroyal above. I'm less comfortable with the fact that he wasn't allowed to redeem himself though and would have preferred him to have been given the chance to apologise and make good his mistake. Having said that I know the moderators task is a difficult and thankless one so there is no easy answer to this type of quandary.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Sometimes the spalting runs so deep, you need to grub out the tree!

 

[Andy Kev.]

I had a bit more of a think about this last night. PalmeRoyale obviously has got a bit of a chip on his shoulder about cabinet makers and even more so about those who produce books and DVDs for the likes of me who would like to get halfway towards being able to call themselves a cabinet maker. He seems to have identified a rivalry where none exists.

It's not as if the likes of David Charlesworth are producing material which nobody needs. Indeed, the biggest single leap in ability I made was after watching his Chisel Techniques DVD. It was literally an overnight transformation: I'd gone from being a guesser to being knowledgeable. For somebody who has no access to personal instruction such DVDs are worth every penny. And of course they present no threat whatsoever to the world of boat building.

It's a bit of a shame because the boats pictured are gorgeous and I'm sure that many of us would have found details about their construction to be fascinating. However, as Bob quite reasonably points out, the bloke ruled himself by his behaviour out of court before he even got to what the forum is about.

 

[NazNomad]

Sometimes the spalting runs so deep, you need to grub out the tree!

Keep it, flood it with CA, it'll be fine.

 

[ColeyS1]

I was the first one to call him out on his rudeness and lack of courtesy so I of course agree with the criticism levelled against Palmroyal above. I'm less comfortable with the fact that he wasn't allowed to redeem himself though and would have preferred him to have been given the chance to apologise and make good his mistake. Having said that I know the moderators task is a difficult and thankless one so there is no easy answer to this type of quandary.

In my latter posts, I was trying to steer him towards being a little more gracious. He started to come around, but just couldn't let go his desire to badmouth people. It's a shame cause I'm sure he would have began to enjoy it here once he stopped being a buttock.
I learnt quite a bit from just viewing the companies facebook page (I'm not a fb member but you can still view it) it's quite fascinating and has loads of pictures, building the boats from just templates to forming the whole shell in lots of stages.
Perhaps we could have learnt alot, perhaps he could have learnt a little.
Apologies for my movie quote, it just really rattles my cage when people set out to offend members. Especially members who share their time and knowledge helping other members members members- gotta stop saying members :lol:
Coley

 

[Droogs]

I support your view entirely Bob, after all from what I've read here in this post, the "man" has skills but severly lacks in human decency. Reminds me of a comment an uncle of mine once made "I met Reinhard (Heydrich) once, most cultured man I ever met, biggest C**T too"


edit typo

 

[Lons]

I'm less comfortable with the fact that he wasn't allowed to redeem himself though and would have preferred him to have been given the chance to apologise and make good his mistake.

I read all of his previous posts, not that many and there is a common thread of arrogance albeit not as rude as this thread so a waste of time IMO. His comment about being bored and having fun is I think as far as he would have gone. It takes a genuine person to say sorry and it was never going to happen. Having read my responses I was rude as well and regret that as it doesn't happen too often. I don't know him, maybe he hadn't taken his medication or all the other products available in Amsterdam.

I great shame as I'm sure many on here would have been interested in reading about his methods and achievements but not in the way he portrays.

I had the good fortune to be friends with 2 very skilled and humble people. Norman Tulip a widely respected walking stick maker and David Major who was a very skilled wood carver, both sadly deceased but who rather than blow their own trumpet would go out of their way to help anyone who asked.

Bob

 

[MikeK]

I'm a newbie here, and an even bigger newbie when it comes to transforming wood into something useful and beautiful. As such, I am a sponge for information and am very pleased with the content and delivery of information at UKWorkshop.

I used to own a photography-related discussion board, where the core values were courtesy and respect. It was okay to disagree, but not berate. Over the years, it was necessary to remove some very talented members because their ego was or became a substantial barrier to the flow of information. Unfortunately for PalmRoyale, his (or her) attitude got in the way of being a potential source of useful information. Too bad.

Getting back to the topic, I ordered two Ohishi waterstones and a diamond coated lapping plate specifically for my new planes. I also cheated (gasp) and ordered the honing guide so my novice hands can achieve the correct angle when putting an edge on the irons.

 

[Beau]

Yes the guy over stepped the mark but I can see this from both sides.

He shared a way to clean up a waterstone and immediately got pounced on over flattening of stones. IMO there is a lot of OTT sharpening threads on here and he was probably trying to nip that it in the bud from the start. Yes he was arrogant but doesn't mean there was not a lot of truth in some of his posts. Most of the skilled pros I know would never bother with a forum like this or look at the some of the youtube "masters". Loads of highly skilled guys and gals out there that we will never hear of as they don't need to self publicise to get work.

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

All the really skilled people I've met in life had no need to boast - their skill was obvious. I've also met very few indeed who felt the need to denigrate the skills and abilities of others. When you develop skill in something, it sort of dawns on you that there are an awful lot of other skills in the world of which you know very little.
.

CC is absolutely correct. What strikes me is how insecure the OP must feel. I constantly marvel at the range of skills that I see on this forum. I know about boat building and repairs, both in steel and wood (although my knowledge of glass fibre is rather limited) and imagine that most who did not work in this field would struggle with these tasks, why on earth would this make me want to denigrate the skills of those in other trades? Woodworking, indeed all making skills are to some degree transferable, but knowing how to build/fit a boat does not mean you can build a pipe organ or make a violin, at least not without being humble enough to realise that there is sooo much you need to learn.

One of my oldest friends is a builder. We have a bit of banter where he boasts that his chisels are so blunt he can let his toddler play with them, laughing his head off at me fussing with my tools. He'll never build a boat like the ones the OP posted and he'll never make furniture like David Charlesworth, however if you want some stud walls built he'll have them done perfectly and be down the pub before either the OP,DC or I have got half way though. If i want to know about how to build a stud wall efficiently and correctly he is the one I would look too. If you are so arragont you think others have nothing to teach you, you will learn very little.
Paddy

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I support your view entirely Bob, after all from what I've read here in this post, the "man" has skills but severly lacks in human decency. Reminds me of a comment an uncle of mine once made "I met Reinhard (Heydrich) once, most cultured man I ever met, biggest C**T too"

Wenn ich Kultur höre ... entsichere ich meinen Browning!?

 

[ColeyS1]

I was joking about his joints needing to fit- spotted this on his Facebook and it made me giggle.

Look at all the filler/resin he had to use, cause the joints didn't fit :lol:
Beau, you raise a good point about being pounced on [WINKING FACE]

Coley

 

[iNewbie]

His comment about being bored and having fun is I think as far as he would have gone. It takes a genuine person to say sorry and it was never going to happen. Having read my responses I was rude as well and regret that as it doesn't happen too often. I don't know him, maybe he hadn't taken his medication or all the other products available in Amsterdam.

[/quote]

Yes, that Lithium chain cycling grease can be a mare if not applied properly.

Nice boats for sure.

 

[swb58]

There must surely be a trip organised to visit this great man at work.

 

[MrTeroo]

Totally over the top to ban him on the basis ofwhat he wrote in this thread.

I agree his views were forthright, but rude? I don't see rudeness there. Read them in the voice of Kenneth Williams, definitely not rude.

Someone called him a c0ck. That's rude, why isn't that person banned?

This was a knee jerk reaction that need's to be reversed IMO

 

[Lons]

Clean but is it flat?

best wishes,
David

Pounced on, really? A simple question the way I see it and certainly respectful!

David Charlesworth, right? Let me guess, you're one of those people who flattens a stone before each use? It must suck if you've been in woodworking for decades but you still don't know how to keep a stone flat with a chisel or plane blade. Maybe I should make a video about it and sell it to all the amateur woodworkers out there. Easy money.

The pouncing, quite rightly imo came after his response above which was definitely out of order.

 

[D_W]

Totally over the top to ban him on the basis ofwhat he wrote in this thread.

I agree his views were forthright, but rude? I don't see rudeness there. Read them in the voice of Kenneth Williams, definitely not rude.

Someone called him a c0ck. That's rude, why isn't that person banned?

This was a knee jerk reaction that need's to be reversed IMO

I think your lens works differently than everyone else's. It's not like he wrote one post that was borderline.

 

[MrTeroo]

Totally over the top to ban him on the basis ofwhat he wrote in this thread.

I agree his views were forthright, but rude? I don't see rudeness there. Read them in the voice of Kenneth Williams, definitely not rude.

Someone called him a c0ck. That's rude, why isn't that person banned?

This was a knee jerk reaction that need's to be reversed IMO

I think your lens works differently than everyone else's. It's not like he wrote one post that was borderline.

Can I see the poll results on that please?

Thanks