I wasn't suggesting looking at your fingers, simply that spreading several fingers across the width gives a better feel for what is going on. Of course you need to check progress on the actual face, that goes without saying. As to using a guide, I have no idea why you get so worked up about it. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong, if someone finds it helpful then frankly so what.
Paul Sellers says cap iron position doesn’t matter
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Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Interested , not worked up about it. It keeps coming up in threads though and there's something weirdly ritualistic about the modern sharpening cult, the gurus and their occult procedures!
e.g. just a detail - it seems odd to me that so many have been persuaded to use water as a sharpening medium, in spite of its well known association with rust, not to mention the messiness they all complain about. Smacks of self punishment. At least it's not actually acidic. You can of course buy an anti rust additive
- which means having to persuade people that oil is really bad for everything!Not to mention another faction who have been persuaded to buy honing fluids more expensive than good whiskey, or camellia oil more suited to coiffure!
Keeps me entertained anyway.
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John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
I can't understand why D_W isn't posting in this thread. Maybe he thinks it's a trap...
Cabinetman
Established Member
Maybe he’s like me, life is too short and I think you must all be lacking something worthwhile to do, plane gets blunt, 1/2 a minute up and down an oilstone, back to work again. No great mystery and I can’t imagine what you’ve been talking about for four pages.
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
There was talk of the leading angle and also iron profiles which is a joined subject regarding use of the cap iron.
Worth reading if you haven't used the cap iron to its full potential yet, after reading Davids "Setting a Cap iron" article on a woodcentral website.
That was 2012, and David has put a lot of effort into making this old knowledge widely published.
Yet people think its only about as well performing as a scraper!
Either that, or it's only a method of tearout reduction, rather than total
elimination of any hint of tearout.
Chatoyancy might not be important for a lot of folks, but it suggests that one gets a dang good surface from a plane.
Could talk about more stuff yet, like being able to comb the fibres
(Someone else might have a good word for it) and that might sound odd to some who've not used a smoother to that extent, but they might have noticed it with a scraper before.
Another possible humorous part in all this is the quick sharpening and there's nothing to it suggestion,
Which is fine if your using a heavy jack plane, on easy stock,
but for a smoother or jack with less camber, working on tough stuff, geometry is my preference over sharpness.
An iron needing sharpening, which has the profile correct will outperform (as in leave a better surface) than a freshly sharp iron that's too much camber)
Tom
Worth reading if you haven't used the cap iron to its full potential yet, after reading Davids "Setting a Cap iron" article on a woodcentral website.
That was 2012, and David has put a lot of effort into making this old knowledge widely published.
Yet people think its only about as well performing as a scraper!
Either that, or it's only a method of tearout reduction, rather than total
elimination of any hint of tearout.
Chatoyancy might not be important for a lot of folks, but it suggests that one gets a dang good surface from a plane.
Could talk about more stuff yet, like being able to comb the fibres
(Someone else might have a good word for it) and that might sound odd to some who've not used a smoother to that extent, but they might have noticed it with a scraper before.
Another possible humorous part in all this is the quick sharpening and there's nothing to it suggestion,
Which is fine if your using a heavy jack plane, on easy stock,
but for a smoother or jack with less camber, working on tough stuff, geometry is my preference over sharpness.
An iron needing sharpening, which has the profile correct will outperform (as in leave a better surface) than a freshly sharp iron that's too much camber)
Tom
A blade and a chipbreaker in harmony. Mechanics not opinion.
Droogs
Not the Sharpest Moderator in the box
@hennebury , you sir are the new Hugh Heffner. just think of the veneers you could make if you had one of these beauties
All samples done on a supersurfacer.
A chipbreaker and a blade. The shape and position of the chipbreaker is not just important but critical! ( you may notice that there is no setting for 1/32" -1/8")
Adam W.
A Major Clanger
That's about right.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Completely wrong! It's even more essential on difficult stock - you need to refresh the edge far more frequently. Quick/easy sharpening means sharper edges more of the time.
Adam W.
A Major Clanger
That's mad. How much is that thing ?
I taught woodworking classes in my shop in the evenings 40 years ago.
The first two course that i taught were on wood structure, moisture content and wood movement, and tuning up handplanes. My thoughts are that you need to understand the tools and materials from the getgo.
If you want to see an enthusiastic beginner, see someone that has spent a long grueling 24 hour course (3 hours a night, once a week for 8weeks) filing, lapping and sharpening their handplane, finally taking paper-thin shavings, and running around the shop showing everyone, then carefully wrapping up their delicate treasures to take home and show their partners and friends. They left having an intimate understanding of the nature of wood, the tools and how they relate to each other.
I only had students for a short time, i could have shown them how to make a project or two, or how to understand the tools and materials so that they could apply that knowledge to all projects that they would undertake in the future.
Wood is fairly simple material and tools are simple, people make it complicated.
A hand plane will work with no chipbreaker, or one set back 1/8", in some circumstances, soft wood, perfect grain direction etc. but a handplane properly tuned up with close-set chipbreaker will work through the tough stuff with ease leaving a beautiful surface without any tearout, whereas a plane with the chipbreaker that is the wrong shape and set to far back will simply tear the wood.
Learning the basics at the beginning is worth the effort, and it is information that you will carry with you your entire life and you will apply it to every project that you work on. Cutting tools and how they relate to wood are not a matter of opinion they are a matter of fact, a matter of mechanics.
The first two course that i taught were on wood structure, moisture content and wood movement, and tuning up handplanes. My thoughts are that you need to understand the tools and materials from the getgo.
If you want to see an enthusiastic beginner, see someone that has spent a long grueling 24 hour course (3 hours a night, once a week for 8weeks) filing, lapping and sharpening their handplane, finally taking paper-thin shavings, and running around the shop showing everyone, then carefully wrapping up their delicate treasures to take home and show their partners and friends. They left having an intimate understanding of the nature of wood, the tools and how they relate to each other.
I only had students for a short time, i could have shown them how to make a project or two, or how to understand the tools and materials so that they could apply that knowledge to all projects that they would undertake in the future.
Wood is fairly simple material and tools are simple, people make it complicated.
A hand plane will work with no chipbreaker, or one set back 1/8", in some circumstances, soft wood, perfect grain direction etc. but a handplane properly tuned up with close-set chipbreaker will work through the tough stuff with ease leaving a beautiful surface without any tearout, whereas a plane with the chipbreaker that is the wrong shape and set to far back will simply tear the wood.
Learning the basics at the beginning is worth the effort, and it is information that you will carry with you your entire life and you will apply it to every project that you work on. Cutting tools and how they relate to wood are not a matter of opinion they are a matter of fact, a matter of mechanics.
New supersurfacers start at around $25,000 That would be the Marunaka one in the video. they make larger ones that will cut up to 24" wide and special custom machines up to 40" wide for slicing plastic. ( if you have a spare $500,000 ) Many companies make supersurfacers, Makita, Hitachi, Ryobi, Marunaka, Heian Takakawa, Shinx etc. You can get smaller machines from Makita, Hitachi, Ryobi. You can get Marunaka machines with standard knives or disposable knives. You need a Marunaka grinder for the standard knives. they have two grinding heads, a "rough" and a finish hone. Slick machines.
Droogs
Not the Sharpest Moderator in the box
About fifty pence cheaper than a leigh nielsen #8
i saw this morning a 2nd hand for sale at 8K USD when I did a little bit of searching but it was in the far east
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
Try it with a near blunt iron for yourself on the toughest stuff you have, or stuff with knots and compare it to a freshly sharpened one,
Or even with an iron needing a lick, compare that one to the sharpened one, and do another round and see how you get along afterwards.
Without tearout its easier on a dull edge vs a rapidly decreasing sharp edge which is tearing out chunks.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
Not me, guvnor. I haven't participated in this thread at all up to now. But it is one of D_W's pet subjects, I believe, and he obviously doesn't have better things to do, as is demonstrated by his numerous essays on just about everything.
Hornbeam
Established Member
A chip breaker is not essential, look at all the old wooden mounding planes that work fairly well. That being said there are 3 things that make a plane work well assuming all the issues with sole flattening etc are good
- a sharp blade. If teh blade is sharp and you are planing with the blade it will work
- the mouth opening. This limits the size of shaving so when planing against the grain/wild grain the plane cant physically dig in as far
- the chip breaker. The tighter the chip breaker the shorter the shaving before it has to deflect
Nobody who does much planing would pay attention to what Paul sellers says about planing.
But some of his bad advice does create a practical problem- throngs of people who think he's a high end maker run around ignoring advice or historical literature written by trained high end makers.
But some of his bad advice does create a practical problem- throngs of people who think he's a high end maker run around ignoring advice or historical literature written by trained high end makers.
