Paul, his version of sharpening

[hlvd]

No, you're missing the point. Hand skills need practice, often lots of it, and some people really just won't be capable of the needed degree of dexterity. Setting up a machine is simple process that just needs knowledge and understanding.

What’s different between hand tool knowledge and understanding and machine knowledge and understanding?

 

[thetyreman]

No, you're missing the point. Hand skills need practice, often lots of it, and some people really just won't be capable of the needed degree of dexterity. Setting up a machine is simple process that just needs knowledge and understanding.

I agree that some people maybe they are disabled for example wouldn't be able to do hand cut dovetails, however I've never seen a machine cut dovetail I have liked the look of, often they are designed and proportioned wrongly, also the process of cutting them by hand can be extremely fast once you have the skills and have practised and done it hundreds and hundreds of times, machine skills also need practise too and there's the issue with safety if not used and set up properly.

 

[Rhossydd]

What’s different between hand tool knowledge and understanding and machine knowledge and understanding?

Hand to eye coordination.

 

[Rhossydd]

the process of cutting them by hand can be extremely fast once you have the skills and have practised and done it hundreds and hundreds of times,

Exactly.
How long does that take ? How much timber does that waste ? How much does that waste cost ?

 

[hlvd]

Hand to eye coordination.

I disagree, it takes a lot of skill to use a machine correctly.

 

[thetyreman]

Exactly.
How long does that take ? How much timber does that waste ? How much does that waste cost ?

it took me a few weeks of really intense practise maybe a month... and what happens is you develop the eye for it, the key is not to be afraid of mistakes at all and just keep grafting and you need to believe you can do it then you will get there, I used redwood pine so nothing too fancy and I have deliberately kept my early dovetails as a reminder of how poor they were at the start compared to where I am now.

 

[tibi]

it took me a few weeks of really intense practise maybe a month... and what happens is you develop the eye for it, the key is not to be afraid of mistakes at all and just keep grafting and you need to believe you can do it then you will get there, I used redwood pine so nothing too fancy and I have deliberately kept my early dovetails as a reminder of how poor they were at the start compared to where I am now.

And you can also cut the previous dovetails off and start again, so it maybe takes 2m of pine from the home center. Divide it by two, so you get 2x 1m boards. Keep the last 6 cm, so you have something to hold in the vice. You are left with 47 trials if the board is 2 cm thick. You will learn how to cut gapless dovetails by the time you finish, provided you have the right saw that works correctly.

 

[thetyreman]

make a toolchest, mine has 88 dovetails on it and by the end of it you'll get really good at it.

 

[Adam W.]

Good idea and a useful project too. We can also have the pins first, tails first argument with that one.

 

[tibi]

Good idea and a useful project too. We can also have the pins first, tails first argument with that one.

It would bring the mandatory lock at the end of this thread a few pages sooner.

 

[John Brown]

Seems to me that the subject of Paul Sellers has cropped up several times before. The one whose name we dare not utter was particularly venomous, IIRC.
PS himself probably loves it. As the man said, "if there's one thing worse than being talked about, it's not being talked about".

 

[Jacob]

Seems to me that the subject of Paul Sellers has cropped up several times before. The one whose name we dare not utter was particularly venomous, IIRC.
PS himself probably loves it. As the man said, "if there's one thing worse than being talked about, it's not being talked about".

I really don't get the hostility. Sellers seems to be harmless old codger with a lot of useful things to say. Maybe too enthusiastic for some?
I think I might buy his router plane kit and report back.
He doesn't know how to chop mortices - but nobody is perfect!

 

[Jacob]

No, you're missing the point. Hand skills need practice, often lots of it, and some people really just won't be capable of the needed degree of dexterity. Setting up a machine is simple process that just needs knowledge and understanding.

Too many people just talk themselves out of it!

 

[Jameshow]

I disagree, it takes a lot of skill to use a machine correctly.

Just a different skill set, just like CNC or plastic printers....

 

[Rhossydd]

it took me a few weeks of really intense practise maybe a month...

I bought a dovetail jig, the same afternoon had finished all these for two drawers. Waste of about 20 cubic inches of wood, if I wanted to sell the jig I'd probably get back what I paid for it.
Some might say they look too machine made, but that's their problem. I like them and so does everyone else that's seen them.

 

[TRITON]

Nothing wrong with machine dovetails, in fact there are big old industrial machines used in industry for cutting them.

Some though get a bit elitist, but more often than not those people dont have to make a living from it.
They do the job, and are really handy if its something with lots of drawers.
I did a pair of tall drawer units at college. total number of dovetails to cut(in a time constrained environment) was 280(12 drawers of varying sizes).
I bought a jig specifically for that task and without it chances of coming in in time would have been zero. You dont pass a course by not completing the tasks. And besides its the overall design and look of the units rather than how i made the drawers that was the important bit.

 

[hlvd]

Just a different skill set, just like CNC or plastic printers....

Not quite the same comparison in my opinion.

 

[Jacob]

Nothing wrong with machine dovetails, in fact there are big old industrial machines used in industry for cutting them.

Some though get a bit elitist, but more often than not those people dont have to make a living from it.
They do the job, and are really handy if its something with lots of drawers.
I did a pair of tall drawer units at college. total number of dovetails to cut(in a time constrained environment) was 280(12 drawers of varying sizes).
I bought a jig specifically for that task and without it chances of coming in in time would have been zero. You dont pass a course by not completing the tasks. And besides its the overall design and look of the units rather than how i made the drawers that was the important bit.

But if you'd done it by hand you would be an expert by the end of it, and charging more for your products.

 

[Jameshow]

Not quite the same comparison in my opinion.

Of course different skills but to make something using machine tools, or CNC or plastic printing to a high level is a skilled profession.

 

[hlvd]

Of course different skills but to make something using machine tools, or CNC or plastic printing to a high level is a skilled profession.

It is if you’re degree qualified in the subject.