parf mk2 faff

[johnnyb]

I'm looking to make a workable to square the ends of 2.4m wardrobes. I thought the parf guide system and some dogs would be just the thing. anyway I started to try and research this but noone seemed to have made a large cutting table. also the amount of twaddle(guff) waffle about using them seems out of all proportion to there apparent use. am I just buying into a load of fiddling? it seems this system is just an excuse to sell fiddly accessories to overcome a dodgy system.
the amount of time devoted to these things seems overkill to me.

 

[Doug B]

I use a track saw & a good quality square to cut the ends of large panels square as my MFT top is too small for very large panels, you can get squares to fix on your track but for the price of those you can buy a quality square which is useful for many other things.
As for all the paraphernalia you can buy for MFT tables I don’t think it’s worth it a few simple dogs have served me well for years, a ruler stop is handy for repeat accurate cuts but as for the rest well you pays your money & take your choice.

 

[DBT85]

The parf system is for making mft tops, not for squaring boards up.

Unless you are trying to make a top with holes in the right places to do this job?

 

[johnnyb]

I'm thinking of making a cutting table for my tracksaw to square the ends of large unwieldy panels. having a 10ft slider would be the ideal. but I'm pretty happy with my sawing setup as it is but it is a bit lacking on long 4ft square cuts in particular with a jigged length.

 

[johnnyb]

I do have a accurate square but I don't regularly change the rubber strip so its tricky to follow a pencil line exactly. on paper the hole jig system seems perfect. but maybe I'm overthinking it. I don't need a huge amount of holes ala mft top. but if its effective and accurate im sure il get on board "hole" heartedly!

 

[Padster]

You will find many threads on here regarding MFT and PARF MKII system. A search should give good results including links to people like our own @petermillard youtube channel.
That said I have the system and used it for my own table and found no issues with it, read the destructions and make sure you know what you are doing, I say this because if you need longer than the rule you must start in the middle or it drifts out minutely, there is a John McGrath man in shed video that shows how this happens and he admits it was his error.
I’ll leave it there as I say the other threads will cover the rest.

HTH

Padster

 

[marcros]

I would suggest the Benchdogs rail square. cut at 90 degrees to the straight edge ever time, in seconds.

 

[Doug B]

I do have a accurate square but I don't regularly change the rubber strip so its tricky to follow a pencil line exactly. on paper the hole jig system seems perfect. but maybe I'm overthinking it. I don't need a huge amount of holes ala mft top. but if its effective and accurate im sure il get on board "hole" heartedly!

Sorry I was suggesting drawing a line with your square that would be time consuming I just place the square on the edge of the board & bring the back of the track up to the square, quick & effective. Obviously a big square is more convenient.

 

[Spectric]

I would suggest the Benchdogs rail square. cut at 90 degrees to the straight edge ever time, in seconds.

That is a really good answer, simple solution with no fafing and no drilling loads of holes.

 

[deema]

I’m old school and have made a fair bit of ‘box’ fitted stuff using nothing more than a panel saw and a pencil line.
But, for ease a simply made ply tri square of any length you want and a couple of clamps works really well.

 

[Doug B]

I would suggest the Benchdogs rail square. cut at 90 degrees to the straight edge ever time, in seconds.

But it’s a hell of a price £91.67 to £175.33 depending on the option you pick for what is a one trick pony

 

[johnnyb]

I looked at those and thought the registration surface was a bit small. that and the cost! I thought more upto 300mm than 600mm plus tbh. would dogs and rails give a more accurate square if the dogs are spaced further apart? if the holes are right they should.
I'm still not really in tune with them tbh. why such interest in a seemingly simple device? Peter is undoubtedly a good presenter but a bit like Paul sellars workbench it seemingly is something that's achieved a life beyond its value.
thats a compliment and not a criticism btw!

 

[Doug B]

If your MFT is bigger than your panel & you can get dogs front & back of the panel for the rail & panel to register against then you will get a square cut.

I think the track squares are of more use when you haven’t got access to a MFT worktop or your panel is too big.

 

[ScaredyCat]

I'm looking to make a workable to square the ends of 2.4m wardrobes. I thought the parf guide system and some dogs would be just the thing. anyway I started to try and research this but noone seemed to have made a large cutting table. also the amount of twaddle(guff) waffle about using them seems out of all proportion to there apparent use. am I just buying into a load of fiddling? it seems this system is just an excuse to sell fiddly accessories to overcome a dodgy system.
the amount of time devoted to these things seems overkill to me.

Not sure why it's a faff, you need 3 dog holes to make your cut and (probably) 3 dogs max for those holes to trim the end off. You might want to add more holes /dogs on the long edge for extra support, or just clamp it instead.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

I'm looking to make a workable to square the ends of 2.4m wardrobes. I thought the parf guide system and some dogs would be just the thing. anyway I started to try and research this but noone seemed to have made a large cutting table. also the amount of twaddle(guff) waffle about using them seems out of all proportion to there apparent use. am I just buying into a load of fiddling? it seems this system is just an excuse to sell fiddly accessories to overcome a dodgy system.
the amount of time devoted to these things seems overkill to me.

You seem to have missed the benefits of grids of holes and the great advantage of the Parf system that is often overlooked.

With it you can drill an accurate grid of 3mm holes in as large a surface as you want, if you can get a 5 meter by 4 metre sheet (I doubt I could handle anything that size) you can drill the 3mm grid in it. A full 2400 x 1200 sheet is equally easy. Then you just drill out the 20mm holes in the places that you need. There is no need to drill the complete sheet
here it’s being used to locate a work surface using 20mm dogs

then useful clamping points on a storage cart, there is a complete 3mm grid, anytime I need an extra 20mm hole it’s a simple job to add one.

FWIW the cart has more 20mm holes now.

Are there other ways to achieve those? Of course there are.
Are they as quick and simple? Absolutely not.

The more sets of 20mm x 96mm holes you have the more useful they all become, the easier they are to make the more you will make.

I started the 20mm holes on a 96mm grid 9 years ago and just keep adding to it here is the link to the first few items I made 20mm hole on a 96mm grid system (MFT top style) and here MFT Style 20mm Hole 96mm Grid

 

[johnnyb]

the situation you describe a few dog holes three dogs and a guide and rail is a seemingly simple way of achieving a tricksy cut.(perfect 90 on an 8 ft cab side).
the next post beautifully illustrated what happens when these are mentioned! none of the things illustrated by sometime woodworker seem particularly amazing( and I enlarged and zoomed) please don't be offended sometime.
anyway I'm gonna buy a little kit and see how I get on! whats to loose!
I remember three years ago showing a long time joiner my tracksaw initially he was extremely sceptical but after a few days he was silent after a few months he used it all the time! maybe I'm that guy in this instance!

 

[petermillard]

But it’s a hell of a price £91.67 to £175.33 depending on the option you pick for what is a one trick pony

Well, the £110 (inc VAT) is the one-trick pony - the more costly versions have other tricks up their sleeves - but I’ve shown how easy it is to make a one-trick pony equivalent from a piece of board and a handful,of spare parts, if that’s all you need.

 

[Doug B]

Well, the £110 (inc VAT) is the one-trick pony - the more costly versions have other tricks up their sleeves - but I’ve shown how easy it is to make a one-trick pony equivalent from a piece of board and a handful,of spare parts, if that’s all you need.

Many years ago I bought the FS-KS combination bevel Peter & to be honest that never blew my frock up, I’ve seen & tried many of these clip on squares but to be honest it seems so easy to square the rail with a bench square that for me they aren’t worth the money.
I’m not saying others won’t find them useful but they seem expensive for what they do when there are cheaper ways to achieve the same end particularly if you are working on a MFT table & have dogs.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

the situation you describe a few dog holes three dogs and a guide and rail is a seemingly simple way of achieving a tricksy cut.(perfect 90 on an 8 ft cab side).
the next post beautifully illustrated what happens when these are mentioned! none of the things illustrated by sometime woodworker seem particularly amazing( and I enlarged and zoomed) please don't be offended sometime.
anyway I'm gonna buy a little kit and see how I get on! whats to loose!
I remember three years ago showing a long time joiner my tracksaw initially he was extremely sceptical but after a few days he was silent after a few months he used it all the time! maybe I'm that guy in this instance!

I’m certainly not offended.
As I mentioned there are certainly other ways to to fix a workbench top to a movable cart, to fit a removable sisor jack to any of the 20 x 96 x 96 grids I have, to fit a 12” disk sander to one of the grids. To make a perfect 90 degree cut on a door, to use a shop cart as a workbench etc. The point I was making that it looks as if you may have missed is that the Parf jig is much more than a 1 trick pony and that when you have it other jobs where it can help pop up. This is similar to the Domino, now I have it making a mortise is a trivial, extremely fast job so it gets used for jobs that can be done other ways but the domino does it faster and easier and protruding tenons get used in new ways.

The number of things I make that fit the pattern grows annually each time I add something the usefulness goes up, almost exponentially.

Virtually every item in my workshop is on wheels, including work stools and my latest shop cabinet, This started when my shop was so small it had to get packed away, now that it’s large enough to almost give me agoraphobia I still have everything on wheels and rearrange the layout for the job I’m doing. I find this incredibly useful.
I also have french cleats on the walls and vertical surfaces so any arrangement of storage or tool placement can be moved extremely easily.

All those work well for me In my workshop. Some, all, or none may work or be ideal for you. Some, all, or none may give you ideas or inspiration. None of them are original, all are adapted from things I’ve seen.
One of the people who’s work has inspired me is I don’t have the money available for a fraction of the things he makes but quite a few of the techniques he uses are in use in my shop.

lateral thinking and using French cleats 90 mm x 90 mm holes mortise slots et cetera makes different items in the workshop and different storage much more interesting for me.

 

[petermillard]

Many years ago I bought the FS-KS combination bevel Peter & to be honest that never blew my frock up, I’ve seen & tried many of these clip on squares but to be honest it seems so easy to square the rail with a bench square that for me they aren’t worth the money.
I’m not saying others won’t find them useful but they seem expensive for what they do when there are cheaper ways to achieve the same end particularly if you are working on a MFT table & have dogs.

I don’t disagree Doug, but then I don’t think rail squares are aimed at folks with an MFT - I might have done a video about that as well - they’re more aimed at guys doing site work. Of course, if you have a rail you can dedicate a square to, then it becomes much more useful in a workshop.