Outhouse Project

[redefined_cycles]

Hi all. So I started a thread asking about the lintel and other stuff for my outhouse project. But it was all a bit ambiguous and I've started exploring options already. Basically the outhouse is a mess but also not very water tight and during winter lots of bike stuff tends to get 'rusty'. Original thrwad here Outhouse/shed door frame replacement - making wider!

Two things need doing. Firstly door/frame replacement and I'd been thinking a composite or UPVC. Something reclaimed/recycled obviously. Secondly some more shelving/storage system and a good tidy up as everythings gotten ahead of me (clinically diagnosed with dyslexia and organisational difficulties )

That's the back door after a tiny porch area. Window next to it and then the door frame I'm gonna be ripping out (methodically). The culprit being mainly at the bottom as can be seen big rotten gaps in the frame and the door is also 'gaping' beneath.

I took some online input to explore whether there's a lintel above the outhouse doorframe. To get a masonry drillbit past the woodwork and see if it hits a metal plate. Instead I cut a piece out from the frame (maybe not as clever) and there's definitely not a lintel beneath the one layer of bricks above that door.

From what I can gather after some more cutting the frame around the left side of the frame where door is hung. The red thick squares represent the brickwork that the door frame is screwed into face on (the blue lines being frame fixing). Seems as though these bricks - most probably a load bearing wall - were dround and chiselled away when this current frame was put in.

Below at the bricks on the left, the frame is fixed into these (blue lines being frame fixings). Then it appears they just added that wooden board over after the upvc windows/door were put in.

Now, coming over to the missing lintel. I can only assume that this is because the roof is made from corrugated metal with concrete poured into/around it. Hence what's probably fixed straight into the house (on the left). I've taken some input from a (non-professional) builder to just remove the overhead bricks when installing new/salvaged upvc frame.

Problem remains how I'd get a standard door frame (not custom built to my opening and) for the fixings of the left to knock/fasten straight into the brickwork). Watch this space...

 

[Tris]

Depending how much space you've got behind that board and what uPVC profile has been used it may be possible to fit a pole of the type used for a bay window. You'd have to get the units out of your existing window, remove the fittings, fix the pole to the brickwork, then refix the window before installing the new door frame.
There are some very experienced people on here who can tell you more about those sort of options than I can but it may give you a starting point

 

[Bingy man]

Hi I’ve read your posts and got a little lost as to what your attempting. Is it the available height of your frame that’s 78 and is that the problem or is it the width. I’ve overcome a similar situation by fitting a concrete lintel before removing the existing frame. This can be set in place to allow for a standard frame. as for the width a stihl saw will easily slice though brickwork but it’s extremely dusty unless the saw has a water hose attachment. Not sure if this helps but it’s how I would get over this problem.

 

[Jameshow]

If I were you I'd pop over to green frame at cleckheaton and ask his advice.

Really freindly chap selling second hand uPVC doors and windows you never know he might have something in stock.

Green Frame UPVC Reclamation Centre

Unit 5 Valley Rd, Cleckheaton BD19 3LJ
01274 864629 Green Frame UPVC Reclamation Centre - Google Search

 

[redefined_cycles]

@Tris thanks so much for that info. Will try and get my head round it and maybe ask a few focused questions when the time comes/if need be.

@Bingy man it's thw width that is only 78cm and upon searching such widths in reclaimed upvc frame/door combos it became apparent that they're extremely rare to find. Add to that the fact that I don't fancy upgrading things and still having the problem of inward opening door (and thus spinal aligment problems) with my tool wall behind it. Means I decided om that initial thought of building the frame outwards and thwn getting a used UPVC frame in there. Since then though I've realised my frame is fastened from inside the door (traditional fixing) on the right, but head on to the left. Getting a reclaimed UPVC/composite thus makes it that much harder.

@Jameshow that's really helpful info and I shall indeed pop past when I get a minute away from the family/work.

 

[Inspector]

Your title for the thread threw me for a loop. An outhouse here usually has a moon cutout in the door. You don't dawdle in it in the winter either.

Pete

 

[redefined_cycles]

Haha. I did try to google 'how concrete roofs were made for outhouses' (and all sorts of other iterations of thw same thing) and the only outhouses google/ebay seems to recognise is the garden shed types ;-)

 

[Jameshow]

Is it all one room behind the two doors?

If so why not build a couple if outward opening double doors?

Just a thought?

 

[clogs]

just rebuild the end wall and do it properly.....
plus u could make it bigger.....

 

[redefined_cycles]

Thanks again all... James, no it's been partitioned (by the council when originally built) and this seems to be the same for the few houses along the terraced row. Clogs, do you mean the wall where the window is. That would increase the costs beyond my current abilities and leave me at trying to find some salvaged windows/door to fit the gaps?

Anyway, i went to sleep last night thinking I could make a kind of bevelled end of a length of wood (4 x 2!) And fasten the chiselled/angled wall thats causing me the problem (the left sidw of the wooden door frame. Then have the (salvaged - yet to source) door frame/door fit into this squared opening. Bricking it upwards would obviously be stronger. But hiring of a brick cutter (to make angled bricks) means the cost restrictions aswell as the fact that I'm not sure it's wide enough to the window edge!

Some more pics and a drawing I made last night. Hopefully gives a bit more perspective. Might I add, this will only be done once so though I am happy taking it slow enough to fund the project, I also wanna have it watwr tight before Oct/Nov.

ie. finishing up after themselves. It was me that added the expanding foam a year or two ago. Just never got round to sealing it up which would have been pointless anyway. Due to the big gaps in frame at bottom.

 

[johna.clements]

I have not read the thread so I am just butting in but why do you need to hire a special machine to cut angled bricks.

Why not buy or borrow a 4 inch angle grinder. Score a line where you want the cut then wack it with a hammer.

 

[Jameshow]

You problems with the door probably stem from not having a weather bar on the door.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16538123...ar=464934302143&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Then no having a threshold to stop the water coming in.

Sort those two things out and 99% of the water coming in will be stopped.

 

[redefined_cycles]

Very true James. But it's also about 5cm rotten on either side on the frame bottom. Plus the opening inwards means it gets very awkward sometimes getting stuff from behind the door on the tool wall.

I do get your point about the threshhold/weather bar but always knew it was something that I want to upgrade at some point so not bothered working through that option

Maybe I should've...

 

[redefined_cycles]

Thanks @johna.clements and the more people butt in, the better. I thought about an angle grinder but assumed reclaimed bricks (some less clean than others possibly) wouldn't take kindly to 'the whack'. Cutting was mentioned in case I decided to cut away the bricks at the bottom (left) of my frame as well as maybe neaten up the chipped away bricks behind the current wooden frame.

Good point though an should save me a heap of money (and maybe excuse for a new ebay/gumtree quality grinder

 

[johna.clements]

Bricklayers often cut bricks just with a special hammer with a chisel one side. mostly the brick survives. If you score through the outside, which is the hardest part for clay bricks, they should mostly be good. If you are covering them up with the door frame they do not have to be perfect. Any irregularities can be taken up by mortar and bits of broken brick.

I would be reluctant to start removing the existing walls either side of the timber outhouse door. You do not know how the concrete roof slab was designed.

The bricks above the outhouse door are a different matter, they are just decorative and could be removed and replaced with timber if you remove the door frame.



I am not sure what you want at the end of the day apart from preferring the door to open outwards.

If you do not want a window in the door, why not rehang the existing door, with the hinges re-positioned so it opens outwards. If it opens outwards I would fix a stay to the door to stop it blowing around in the wind when open.

As @Jameshow noted a weather bar and drip would help to keep the rain out. You could also run some batten around the inside of the door if it opens outward to stop the wind blowing the rain between the frame and the door. If you do move the door so it opens outward the top of the door will be more exposed so you could also fix a drip to the frame above to shed the rain when it comes off the roof.

You could just remove the rotten portion of the door frame with a short length of treated timber (4x2?).

 

[redefined_cycles]

Thats amazing Johna and I think that's what I might just do with some door/frame repair and the weather strip solution added in.

Regards the weather bar, I'm planning on a canopy anyway so that should be easier to fund... Great advice everyone. Thanks. Will update shortly...

 

[redefined_cycles]

Right then... Thankfully managed to grab myself a lovely (wrong size for original owner) Eurocell door in the exact width as my opening.

Am hoping it'll be plain sailing from here. But watch this space. Then can get on with sorting out some more shelves and arranging the space in there...

 

[MARK.B.]

It sounds like you now have a plan and lucky you being able to find a door that fits, a word of caution though when fitting the new door be careful when screwing the frame to the brickwork in that you don't over tighten the screws and distort the frame,use packers if needed and you should have no problems . pics of the finished job would be good

 

[redefined_cycles]

Thanks @MARK.B. as I'd hoped to keep this thread updated one step at a time (measure twice and cut once and all that) so could hopefully keep getting updated. Yes, I'd already planned on using packers. Will make many before I start. Might have to chip away the brick work by a few mm still as it could become a tight fit...

Thanks again...

 

[redefined_cycles]

Been a while waiting to fit the door. Beautiful Eurocell mismeasure from a window company down south. Around £1500 (or so they claimed) os the retail value but I picked it up via ebay from their store for a handsome £220 (plus petrol)
This is what that left edge looked like after pulling away the door frame. Looks like the bricks at the end of this wall have been chiselled away crudely in the past whenever they added that rotten frame.

A couple of hours with my BIL and a few drills ans packers. Just some finishing left now as about 70% of that left frame isn't secured to anything.

Probably overengineering (but isn't that why we're here ;-) ), but I plan to get the jigsaw and some wood. Remove all that foam and make 2 templates along that length. One to the left and one to the right, hopefully getting a good sketch/template of the chiselled bricks behind this expanding foam.

Sketch the template onto a length of 3 x 3 and screw that into them broken bricks at the end of that left wall. Then screw the left side of that UPVC door frame with packers into the timber. After that seal iy to the elements and make it look pretty