Outdoor dowels!

[DigitalM]

I've got one of those joint-genie systems that I picked up on ebay for a bargain price and it's brilliant for quick and dirty jobs that don't have to bear loads of weight or need fancy details like dovetails.

I see no-one does "treated dowels", and I wasn't really expecting to find such a thing. I realise there are loads of options such as stainless screws in pocket holes or whatever, (oh yeah) but does anyone use dowels for stuff that gets exposed outdoors, and if anyone does what do you do - use hardwood dowels or something?

At the moment I'm assuming that the negatives massively outweigh the positives, so just asking on the off chance really.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I wouldn't use dowels outdoors because of the exposed end grain.

 

[transatlantic]

Couldn't you give the end grain a coat of end grain seal?

 

[pcb1962]

I wouldn't use dowels outdoors because of the exposed end grain.

Why would any part of a dowel be exposed?

 

[DigitalM]

I guess they would be if using dowels to pin things like you do with oak pegs, but that's not my intention. I'm talking about a dowel jig where you might use mortice and tenons for example, but with blind dowel holes.

 

[AndyT]

I've seen external doors dowelled together (blind dowels) - I knew that was the construction when rain got into the joint and it started to come apart - but really, that's because of poor glue or glueing initially, plus poor maintenance. Avoid those problems and you could be ok. A bit like a Domino joint but with less area for glueing.

You can get a wide range of hardwood dowels from http://www.plugitdowel.co.uk/

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I wouldn't use dowels outdoors because of the exposed end grain.

Why would any part of a dowel be exposed?

Sorry, I was thinking of pegging joints rather than the dowels being used instead of a joint.

 

[DigitalM]

So if it's not a totally stupid idea it's pretty easy to use random scraps of hardwood and a dowel cutter.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I'm really struggling to see what the difference is (purely in terms of being outside) between a hardwood dowel that's completely buried in the glued joint and a mortice and tenon done in the traditional way using hardwood stock?? Neither of the "tenons" are exposed to the air, both are covered in waterproof glue, both are hardwoods (potentially and certainly should be for outdoor use).

As far as I can see, the only difference would not be in the weatherability of the system but rather the structural integrity of the joint. Dowels aren't as good at resisting wracking stresses or movement generally as are mortice and tenon so from that perspective, if the job is a seat for example or worse, a swing seat where both human weight and movement are involved then it wouldn't be my choice for the joinery solution. But from the point of view of it sustaining outdoor weathering, I cant see any difference at all unless I'm missing something.

 

[DigitalM]

Just looked into making my own hardwood dowels and Veritas has a dowel cutting system For £35 or so that looks great but it's imperial only. I've got and 8mm dowel jig. Mathias Wandell shows a homemade thing on YouTube that looks OK, but also looks a right old faff to setup. I'll keep looking, but if anyone knows of an easy, cheap way to knock out 8mm dowels please let me know. Not sure about the plug-cutters...

 

[DigitalM]

Probably this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17BTdhlkeWE

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I'll turn some for you if you like...what do you need? (ie diameter and length)

 

[DigitalM]

Very nice offer Bob, thanks. I'd like to see if I can do this myself to be honest, so very interested to hear how you'd do it first – if it's beyond me or my equipment then maybe we can come to an arrangement.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

No worries, let me know if you want help...I didn't mean for any charge either, maybe postage but I've got plenty of hardwoods so it would be for nowt

 

[sunnybob]

You can buy 8 mm beech dowels at almost any woodworking shop.
You can also buy little brass locating pins so you drill the hole in one piece, put the locating pin in the hole, press the two together in the desired position, and the little brass pin gives you a perfect centre punch to drill the other hole. i have them in 8 mm as well as 6 mm.
Or you can buy the wolfcraft dowel jig set if youre planning on doing more of them.
The video is in german but you dont need the soundtrack.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOORA9l ... =wolfcraft

 

[Bm101]

If using prebought dowels and you're worried about water ingress could you not just treat the dowelling before fitting? I've got some oak from the same place Andy linked. It's good stuff. Not sure why if pre-treated it wouldn't last as well as the timber it's supporting? 2 birds. 1 stone? The dowel pins Bob mentions look handy. Saw them last night on fine tools for the first time in one of them funny coincidences in life.
Cheers
Chris

Ed. I'd hazard the advantage of pre bought dowelling over plug cut is ease versus cost tbh. Just curious what you need. Those little liddl Irwin type japanese saws leave a perfect finish. Used it to repair my oak engineered floor. Flawless.

 

[MorrisWoodman12]

Hasn't anyone looked at five bar wooden outdoor gates? Many have a dowel to draw the tenons together. The dowels are hardwood.

 

[ED65]

Dowels are easily made in the workshop from scraps using tooling you make yourself. Paul Sellers has demonstrated one variation where you literally just bash the wood through a washer!

You can get a little more sophisticated than this using other homemade dies, e.g. made from the body of an old plane iron. But even mild steel is capable of holding up well enough to make enough dowels for a handful of projects.

 

[powertools]

Many years ago i purchased a dowel jointer from b&q that is a cheap version of a maffel duo dowler i don't think they sell them anymore. I have over the years made several rabbit hutches a chicken coop and a gate using nothing more than normal dowells and wickes exterior glue and none of the joints have failed.

 

[Beau]

I make my own with a Fisch plug cutter in the drill press