Opinions/experience sought...

[JerryP]

Hi everyone,

Looking at the second-hand market, there appear to be two basic build formats of woodturning lathe available - those using a cast iron bed, and those using a bed made of one or more round bars. Having a background using an engineering lathe - ground cast iron bed with the weight of a small elephant - I am by nature, adverse to the round bar concept. Given that I am a novice woodturner who is looking only to upgrade from an Axminster AW240WL (too short for the sort of things I want to do), am I making life unduly hard for myself by sticking to my suspicion of round bar bedded machines? There seem to be a lot for sale second-hand, I don't know if that is simply due to the format being standard in the past, or if the emergence of cast beds really has been a game-changer.

What are people's thoughts and experiences?

Many thanks indeed,

Jerry.

 

[Cobbs]

Hi everyone,

Looking at the second-hand market, there appear to be two basic build formats of woodturning lathe available - those using a cast iron bed, and those using a bed made of one or more round bars. Having a background using an engineering lathe - ground cast iron bed with the weight of a small elephant - I am by nature, adverse to the round bar concept. Given that I am a novice woodturner who is looking only to upgrade from an Axminster AW240WL (too short for the sort of things I want to do), am I making life unduly hard for myself by sticking to my suspicion of round bar bedded machines? There seem to be a lot for sale second-hand, I don't know if that is simply due to the format being standard in the past, or if the emergence of cast beds really has been a game-changer.

What are people's thoughts and experiences?

Many thanks indeed,

Jerry.

Cast iron for me, old British if available.

 

[Sideways]

I had a round bar lathe. Record CL2 with the solid steel / chromed bars.
The two cast iron ends were through bolted down to a solid plank which had splayed legs attached like a big trestle.

There was a good deal of weight in that assembly and as a beginner I didn't feel it was prone to flex or vibration.
The record style round bar construction can be stiffened further by mounting it on a steel frame / stand that gives you a rectangular hollow section tube end to end.

I would share your reservation about something with hollow bars.
 BUT
I would also not recommend a record CL round bar machine because the engineering of the clamp between cast iron end and steel bars is simply atrocious for achieving a proper axial alignment of the spindle and the tailstock. The design can achieve this in principle but the manufacturing precision is an order of magnitude too crude to achieve it and there's no adjustability in the design so you would have to do it with a grinder and shims.
For a lot of work it doesn't terribly matter, but I tried my hand at pen turning, bought a compression mandrel" that threads a rod through the pen blank between morse taper fittings in both the spindle and the tailstock MT sockets and because these sockets were offset sideways, hightways and at a small angleto each other as well, you could see the rod flexing as the spindle turned. Unacceptable !

Bottom line, nothing beats properly machined cast iron.

Also, personally I'd avoid mechanical variable speed lathes and I don't like brush motors and their cheap variable speed controls. Make sure whatever you buy has a multi position pulley / belt drive and that it's easy to change ratios. That is the only way you will have high torque at low speed for turning large pieces.

 

[Tris]

+1 for cast iron here. Had a Record lathe with round bars and found the same as Sideways. Much fiddling and fettling to get it in alignment and easy to knock out of.
My current Jet lathe has a Reeves drive, and for now it's doing ok. Biggest bugbear is that the motor sticks out forward of the headstock so I can't use the full capacity within 80mm of the headstock nose. When the drive gives up I will upgrade to an electronic variable speed

 

[alex robinson]

Hi everyone,

Looking at the second-hand market, there appear to be two basic build formats of woodturning lathe available - those using a cast iron bed, and those using a bed made of one or more round bars. Having a background using an engineering lathe - ground cast iron bed with the weight of a small elephant - I am by nature, adverse to the round bar concept. Given that I am a novice woodturner who is looking only to upgrade from an Axminster AW240WL (too short for the sort of things I want to do), am I making life unduly hard for myself by sticking to my suspicion of round bar bedded machines? There seem to be a lot for sale second-hand, I don't know if that is simply due to the format being standard in the past, or if the emergence of cast beds really has been a game-changer.

What are people's thoughts and experiences?

Many thanks indeed,

Jerry.

I too would agree that cast iron and weight is useful. Vibrations really are frustrating, especially when trying to turn larger pieces.

I have a Nova with an electronic speed control. It has never given me any trouble, but I know plenty of people on here are really suspicious of electronic variable speed.

Something incredibly worth doing whatever you get is making sure the stand is really secure. I cast a concrete plinth for mine that it is bolted into and it made a huge difference.

What to get very much depends on what you want to make. Are you wanting to make long spindle pieces, or bowls? If you think there is any chance you may want to make large bowls, get one with the biggest diameter capacity you can. A swivel or sliding head can help with this - you can get a huge bowl capacity on a medium sized machine this way.

Once you have decided this, it comes down to what you can bring yourself to spend. For a budget option, I always recommend people look at these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/176638459367?

They aren't high end machines, but are relatively robust, have very little to go wrong with them (so long as you don't smash the drive cones when changing a belt) and will cope with fairly big pieces (450mm bowl with the head swivelled if you are feeling brave, 900mm spindle length). Come with a whole range of badges. Obviously the power is low compared with a more upmarket model, but they are cheap - that eBay one is £150!

If you can spend more, then do - the sting of purchase will fade, but the enjoyment in the years to come won't!

 

[JerryP]

Thanks all - the consensus definitely backs-up my suspicion of round bars. I really do think I'll stick with cast, whether I buy new or second-hand. The ebay link doesn't go to a webpage, so I'm not sure what Alex is suggesting, but currently I'm considering something like a Record DML320 with its bed extension. I suspect that I'll need more length than height, but if I keep on the Record track and increase the price bracket, the Coronet Herald has a swing headstock, and can take a bed extension. I'm not precious on brand, nor on new/used, just on VFM.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

The club defifition of Record CL lathes was "agricultural". I have a Poolewood that has round bars, they are no longer hollow - I concreted them. It's fine but cast bed ones are better.

 

[JerryP]

The club defifition of Record CL lathes was "agricultural". I have a Poolewood that has round bars, they are no longer hollow - I concreted them. It's fine but cast bed ones are better.

Love the idea of concreting hollow bars - brilliant!

 

[GeorgeCass]

I have a Coronet major , it complies with the weighs a ton comments, Small elephant probably.. , it is very rigid and the solid steel bed bar has a deep slot in it so alignment is not an issue at all. Christ knows how much all that steel and cast iron weighs but after I moved it and fastened in place I was checking for suspected hernia,. Cheap as well I picked up a Blue major Lathe with Saw and planer and all guards etc for £275 . It was in very good shape and has the outboard tool rests that go with the swivel headstock.

 

[alex robinson]

Thanks all - the consensus definitely backs-up my suspicion of round bars. I really do think I'll stick with cast, whether I buy new or second-hand. The ebay link doesn't go to a webpage, so I'm not sure what Alex is suggesting, but currently I'm considering something like a Record DML320 with its bed extension. I suspect that I'll need more length than height, but if I keep on the Record track and increase the price bracket, the Coronet Herald has a swing headstock, and can take a bed extension. I'm not precious on brand, nor on new/used, just on VFM.

Sorry - thy this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/17663845...YstgSMkDRJm/VY/rFe/k9DyCc=|tkp:Bk9SR_q4wZX2ZA

Alternatively put "Delta Variable Speed Electric Wood Lathe A Good Starter Machine With Floor Stand" into eBay search.

I used to have the axminster (m900) version of it and it was a great started lathe.

If you have a look on there and can go a bit (lot) more expensive there are some lovely machines. There is an Axminster 406wl trade spec beauty near you for £1250 for example. Twice the price of the record DML320, but a lot more than 4x the machine...

 

[JerryP]

Sorry - thy this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/176638459367?_skw=Delta+Variable+Speed+Electric+Wood+Lathe+A+Good+Starter+Machine+With+Floor+Stand&itmmeta=01JERNGBHQDEZSPHZV3VP2670F&hash=item292078fde7:g:3D8AAOSwvJ9m-QcX&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAABMHoV3kP08IDx+KZ9MfhVJKm2GirjIUxwHvrwvrTFqceYrZxtWbz5uJdmuJqAzy9AQCoHw/vI6ZqZvgA5hEVf5PzWQkm9kyIYGaVbqiVzZ8QnySijW+VP7zoU5dLUHBTcgUcX6manK1JJfZnsJFmvkRJZxa+okAnPTCIGMBpo6vOFZoK+1w2KkVrTPyVheYyr0TejzNYRBmpcn4ANnvegMRLJinUEgghB0lNiTMdC4bthwi5WF6kk8uXjWA/pTwDREJ5E+eSk29YZsAsBLiNm29Z9q0i3vE2OhJBKIBbtgkglgznQ06QvArss1A/kfVs24kk8fWpyNN+SdmrJl2eFmHG0rz--HH1uep5um5dtohvTAzvcyQvJaqJC6W1AmQYstgSMkDRJm/VY/rFe/k9DyCc=|tkp:Bk9SR_q4wZX2ZA

Alternatively put "Delta Variable Speed Electric Wood Lathe A Good Starter Machine With Floor Stand" into eBay search.

I used to have the axminster (m900) version of it and it was a great started lathe.

If you have a look on there and can go a bit (lot) more expensive there are some lovely machines. There is an Axminster 406wl trade spec beauty near you for £1250 for example. Twice the price of the record DML320, but a lot more than 4x the machine...

The Delta looks unloved, even if it does start and run...as for the Axminster - definitely a lot of lathe, but also a lot of pennies, not sure I could justify that amount to herself .

 

[alex robinson]

The Delta looks unloved, even if it does start and run...as for the Axminster - definitely a lot of lathe, but also a lot of pennies, not sure I could justify that amount to herself .

More that it is a very common model that turns up cheap a lot. Once you start looking, that exact shape turns up under a dozen different names.

 

[Tris]

Think this is the same machine in a different livery
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/38710966...XwgzqajSc-&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[Phil Pascoe]

The Delta looks unloved, even if it does start and run...as for the Axminster - definitely a lot of lathe, but also a lot of pennies, not sure I could justify that amount to herself .

probably nothing worse than cosmetic decay.

 

[Jacob]

Mine's a very excellent Arundel J4 senior. Has square section bars with one on edge, which keeps the tool rest aligned if you move it along. Sorry this probably no use, just thought I'd mention it, butif the J4 crops up 2nd hand go for it. https://www.lathes.co.uk/arundel/page3.html
PS perhaps not this one which looks very dodgy, is the smaller J4 junior with plain bearings, but could be good for spares, say offer £50

 

[JerryP]

Think this is the same machine in a different livery
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/38710966...XwgzqajSc-&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

That looks interesting. What is the general opinion of the model? I have found comments related to its usage rating (two hours per week?), and the need to use an alignment tool when resetting the head and tailstocks, but anything else? I’ve not had my current AW240 very long, and really want to get something I can keep and use for a few fulfilling years.

 

[Jameshow]

I've got a myfold ml8
After ww3 only Volvos, cockroaches and Ml8 will exist!

 

[alex robinson]

That looks interesting. What is the general opinion of the model? I have found comments related to its usage rating (two hours per week?), and the need to use an alignment tool when resetting the head and tailstocks, but anything else? I’ve not had my current AW240 very long, and really want to get something I can keep and use for a few fulfilling years.

Same family, but 1 model up. M1000, vs m900 if you are going by old axminster names.

Mine was made in the mid 90s I think and got some pretty hard use. It is only a hobby, but I was enthusiastic in working out how large a wet blank it would spin and it never missed a beat. Only problems I had was when through stupidity / laziness I stripped a set of teeth on a locking handle and when I let the NVR switch fill with dust. It lives on with a friend and last I heard it was still doing fine.

I don't think there is any more need for an alignment tool with this than any other swivel head lathe.

There are many better lathes out there, from the cast iron durability and timelessness of a Union Graduate, to more modern options like a Poolewood, Nova or pro level axminster. I repeatedly suggest these though because if money is tight, I don't know of anything that offers a better capability : money ratio.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I've got a myfold ml8
After ww3 only Volvos, cockroaches and Ml8 will exist!

My Volvo 245 rusted to bits in eight years.

 

[XTiffy]

I am selling a Myford ML8 Lathe, so I am biased. I have had my lathe for 30+ years and I have never had to fiddle with alignment. This machine was built in the days of "proper engineering", so the machining and tolerences are fine. If you want to turn pen blanks you would use a much smaller lathe. Wood turning is more "art" than engineering and regitity is only relevant when turning really long/big stuff.
.