One-*** efficacy questions

[Blackswanwood]

Deaths per 1000 for a very start. Its already slowing there

Thanks for your explanation but I am afraid I do not follow your logic.

You said that there was selective reporting and have quoted the death rate per 1000 which by all accounts Is increasing.

I have inserted the data on daily deaths below. My understanding which is based on speaking with people I work with in India is that the reported numbers are significantly understated.

If you have alternative data I would be very interested if you could share it.

 

[Selwyn]

Thanks for your explanation but I am afraid I do not follow your logic.

You said that there was selective reporting and have quoted the death rate per 1000 which by all accounts Is increasing.

I have inserted the data on daily deaths below. My understanding which is based on speaking with people I work with in India is that the reported numbers are significantly understated.

View attachment 109692

If you have alternative data I would be very interested if you could share it.

Lets revisit this in about 8 or 9 days and see. Everywhere else has a sharp upward curve and then a tail off. India won't be any different but carry on believing that it is an exponential killer if you wish. Its an endemic and nasty virus making its way through

 

[rwillett]

Was it even a loan, or was the cost 'covered' by him when BJ realised he'd been caught out? Obviously that's an incredibly difficult question for him to answer, and will require a complicated enquiry that'll take long enough that hopefully people will have forgotten about it.
And yes, I've given up trying to keep the thread on track, and this should be in the secret forum.

Such a cynical response, it's so easy to forget how that £58,000 turned up in his account. It must happen all the time, It does to me, small and piffling amounts of money just happen to drop into my account all the time just when I need them, given he has so many other things to remember, e.g. exactly how many kids he has, who is last lover was, who is current lover is, is he friends with Gove or not this week, these small insignificant matters just aren't worth mentioning. Bit like who paid for his last holiday, simply not worth filling the forms in for.

Rob

 

[selectortone]

It didn't hurt my business too much in the end, an initial lull picked up pretty well and with government handouts I had a pretty good year after all.

I am sorry to hear about your daughter, but I don't think that justifies lockdowns. Your daughter was/is at risk of all sorts of infectious diseases when she leaves the house, it's up to her to take steps to protect herself. Ironically the lockdown that was intended to keep her safe will likely in the long run cause her more harm because we are storing up major healthcare problems for the future. You might just find in a few years time there isn't the money to treat her illness. If she had taken steps to shield herself while the healthy carried on with life we would all benefit in the long run. Too late now though. As I have mentioned before, a family member is now permanently disabled and dying of cancer because of lockdown, their consultant has admitted that if lockdown had not delayed treatment they would have a (pretty much) fully functioning arm and their cancer would be cured rather than killing them.

And if I was some gullible sap on the internet and heeded you, I might have persuaded her not to have her jabs and she'd still be un-vaccinated and unprotected.

 

[Rorschach]

And if I was some gullible sap on the internet and heeded you, I might have persuaded her not to have her jabs and she'd still be un-vaccinated and unprotected.

Oh no, I would definitely have recommended she get jabbed, as I have recommended to all the vulnerable in my family.

 

[selectortone]

.

Your daughter was/is at risk of all sorts of infectious diseases when she leaves the house, it's up to her to take steps to protect herself.

Thanks for that pearl of wisdom. That had never occurred to any of us.

 

[Chris152]

Sadly, our culture seems to have encouraged a dangerous mix of ignorance and arrogance, which leads people to think they can blurt out their groundless opinions (esp on the net), spread them like they were significant, and encourage others to do the same and act accordingly. Complete contempt for hard-earned learning and expertise. It's a factor as real and dangerous as the disease, another thing to take into account as we make decisions about what we can and can't do in the midst of the pandemic.

 

[selectortone]

It. As I have mentioned before, a family member is now permanently disabled and dying of cancer because of lockdown, their consultant has admitted that if lockdown had not delayed treatment they would have a (pretty much) fully functioning arm and their cancer would be cured rather than killing them.

And not implementing lockdown and allowing the NHS to become completely overwhelmed with covid cases would have improved that situation in what way?

 

[Blackswanwood]

Lets revisit this in about 8 or 9 days and see. Everywhere else has a sharp upward curve and then a tail off. India won't be any different but carry on believing that it is an exponential killer if you wish. Its an endemic and nasty virus making its way through

Thanks. I did not put forward a view that it is an exponential killer. I take it from that you don’t have any data that supports your view that India’s death rate per 1,000 is falling.

 

[Jacob]

Sadly, our culture seems to have encouraged a dangerous mix of ignorance and arrogance, which leads people to think they can blurt out their groundless opinions (esp on the net), spread them like they were significant, and encourage others to do the same and act accordingly. Complete contempt for hard-earned learning and expertise. It's a factor as real and dangerous as the disease, another thing to take into account as we make decisions about what we can and can't do in the midst of the pandemic.

It's a right wing thing. They have a prob navigating through debates/discussion about issues and instead choose opinions from a menu, usually offered to them by the right wing media

 

[RobinBHM]

e lockdown that was intended to keep her safe will likely in the long run cause her more harm because we are storing up major healthcare problems for the future

This is a false argument.

You are trying to argue if NHS had continued as it was with no changes and lockdowns didn't happen.......somehow there would have been hospital capacity for non Covid treatments.

I can't for the life of me see how herd immunity would have created more NHS capacity.

As I have mentioned before, a family member is now permanently disabled and dying of cancer because of lockdown, their consultant has admitted that if lockdown had not delayed treatment they would have a (pretty much) fully functioning arm and their cancer would be cured rather than killing them

I am very sorry to hear that, having to deal with healthcare during Covid is very very stressful. I have a bit of an idea, my Dad died last May and my FIL spent from March last year until Jan this year in a care home, then got ill and died. I have had many really tough, emotional decisions to make that wouldn't have occurred without Covid.


I respectfully disagree with your belief the cause is lockdown. Really the cause is the Covid pandemic.

 

[Selwyn]

Thanks. I did not put forward a view that it is an exponential killer. I take it from that you don’t have any data that supports your view that India’s death rate per 1,000 is falling.

Lets see how it pans out. I would say it is slowing rapidly now.

 

[Rorschach]

And not implementing lockdown and allowing the NHS to become completely overwhelmed with covid cases would have improved that situation in what way?

Our hospital had zero, or pretty much zero covid patients at the beginning of lockdown, the hospital never came close to being overwhelmed it was a ghost town. His treatment should have started the first week of April 2020, he was not allowed to enter an empty hospital for treatment. He is not alone, his consultant has many patients who he could have cured (or at least had a damn good crack at it) but are now dying. His treatment had an excellent chance of success with minimal side effects, not my words, his consultants.

 

[RobinBHM]

You still don't get it. Watch the video I put up. When you are old and die there are many multiples of factors that will cause you to take your last breath.

I did watch it.

It is all very plausible....but devoid of evidence or facts.

 

[Rorschach]

Really the cause is the Covid pandemic.

NO! The cause is the response to the Covid pandemic.

 

[RobinBHM]

Lets see how it pans out. I would say it is slowing rapidly now.

An opinion that matches your narrative.

Mmmm......

 

[Selwyn]

I did watch it.

It is all very plausible....but devoid of evidence or facts.

It wasn't devoid of facts at all!

 

[Selwyn]

An opinion that matches your narrative.

Mmmm......

Lets revisit in a few days as I say. You retired non working types just stick to the BBC reports and I will look at the other data

 

[selectortone]

Our hospital had zero, or pretty much zero covid patients at the beginning of lockdown, the hospital never came close to being overwhelmed it was a ghost town. His treatment should have started the first week of April 2020, he was not allowed to enter an empty hospital for treatment. He is not alone, his consultant has many patients who he could have cured (or at least had a damn good crack at it) but are now dying. His treatment had an excellent chance of success with minimal side effects, not my words, his consultants.

That doesn't answer my question. One of my daughter's best friends is a scrub nurse at Bournemouth General. She has been seconded to the covid wards for most of the last 12 months. I know for a fact that they were close to being overwhelmed. She loved her job but she hates getting up in the morning right now. At one point they were sending patients to the Nightingale hospital in Exeter. I'll ask again: how would not implementing lockdown, and allowing hospitals to become overwhelmed, have improved waiting times for non-covid conditions?

I'm sorry about your relative. My wife died of cancer so you don't have a monopoly there.

 

[Selwyn]

This is a false argument.

You are trying to argue if NHS had continued as it was with no changes and lockdowns didn't happen.......somehow there would have been hospital capacity for non Covid treatments.

I can't for the life of me see how herd immunity would have created more NHS capacity.

I don't think anyone advocated doing nothing.