old wood planes

[AndyT]

Andy, is it the supposed 'difficulty' in setting them that wooden planes are sneered at do you think, or is it that they

simply seem, 'old fashioned?'

Roy.

I think it is just ignorance.

To the non-specialist, all wooden planes look much the same - as people's unfortunate attempts to describe them on eBay prove.
The ordinary working carpenter or joiner doesn't use them, which is hardly surprising - for many jobs using a power router will give a more accurate result for less skill. If it's a repetitive or extensive job, it may do it quicker. It will certainly sound as if it is getting a lot of work done.

But for anyone woodworking to enjoy the process, who prefers to do it slowly and quietly, they are brilliant. They also have the benefit of often being dirt cheap!

 

[AndyT]

Andy thanks alot for that, I tried doing a bit googling but only really found the Mathieson stuff. I've always liked them just never got round to trying them. Ive had the little coffin one since I was 18. I sharpened it properly today. Do the blades have better quality steel at the front and cheaper stuff forged on?
Mark

Yes, the blades are almost always soft iron for most of the length, welded to a bit of relatively precious cast steel at the working edge. You can often see a clear difference in colour and resistance to corrosion.

 

[mouldy plane]

Hi from a self confessed wooden plane enthusiast. The plane marked R B, has the look of an 18th century plane. is it any longer than the rest?
As to using wooden planes, I often do in my every day work. Just made enough 1/8 inch **** beading to go around 8 paneled doors this afternoon Wouldn't have dreamed of using machinery as it would have took far longer. I also use wooden planes in my leasure time, and do demo's at MAC timbers to try and encourage other woodworkers to try them if you want more info on wooden planes, check out my website at
http://oldwoodplanes.co.uk/

 

[Digit]

Undoubtedly I am the odd one out Richard as I exclusively use wooden planes, but mostly new ones.
Places like E-Bay and car boot sales may be prolific suppliers, but most are in a terrible condition with mouths far to wide for fine work and with irons that that have suffered serious GBH!
I do find that the old irons seem to be superior to the Record/Stanley types irons supplied as standard though.
The one thing missing from old planes IMO is an adjustable mouth, and once again a wooden plane with an adjustable mouth is much quicker to
adjust than a Record/Stanley type.

Roy.

 

[dickm]

Will start another thread to give more detail, but seeing all these wooden beauties reminded me that about 10 years ago, I bought a Mathieson skew rebate plane from an about-to-be-demolished premises in Peterhead. It's been languishing around since then, but it's now out for restoration. It has Mathieson on the front, and a very curly 17 on the back of the body; it is presumably this one:-
http://www.hansbrunnertools.gil.com.au/imagesGallery/Mathieson17.jpg

Some general questions.
1. should I try and clean up the brasswork? I've had to replace the brass inserts on the fence "rods", so they are bright and shiny, but the rest of the brasswork is very dull.
2. Anyone know what shape irons should go in the two slots that look as though they ought to have nickers for cross grain work?
3. Should the fence be glued to the arms? There doesn't seem to be any sign of glue on the join, so it relies for location on the bolts through both which would allow some movement out of parallel.

More questions probably when I've got the relevant photos loaded.

 

[Digit]

Taking your questions one at a time ****....

1. Polishing is, I think something you must decide for yourself.
2. The nickers on mine are about 1 cm wide by 3mm thick and sharpened to produce a 'spike' that produces the 'nick.'
3. On mine they are simply screwed into place, no glue.

Roy.

 

[AndyT]

Will start another thread to give more detail, but seeing all these wooden beauties reminded me that about 10 years ago, I bought a Mathieson skew rebate plane from an about-to-be-demolished premises in Peterhead. It's been languishing around since then, but it's now out for restoration. It has Mathieson on the front, and a very curly 17 on the back of the body; it is presumably this one:-
http://www.hansbrunnertools.gil.com.au/imagesGallery/Mathieson17.jpg

Some general questions.
1. should I try and clean up the brasswork? I've had to replace the brass inserts on the fence "rods", so they are bright and shiny, but the rest of the brasswork is very dull.
2. Anyone know what shape irons should go in the two slots that look as though they ought to have nickers for cross grain work?
3. Should the fence be glued to the arms? There doesn't seem to be any sign of glue on the join, so it relies for location on the bolts through both which would allow some movement out of parallel.

More questions probably when I've got the relevant photos loaded.

I believe that one is a rather rare "combination fillister" - described but not illustrated in Salaman's dictionary - it has a depth stop on each side, so it can be used as a moving fillister or a sash fillister. In other words, it can cut a rebate on the near side or the far side of the work, while referencing from the face side. So I would treat it with care (and a little envy!).

1 - Brasswork - my own preference would be to not clean it. I would not expect even the most careful original owner to have wasted time and effort getting the Brasso out. There are plenty of sad old cases on eBay which have been horribly polished if you want to see what it looks like.
2 - the nicker irons for this will be separate (I think) and probably a mirror pair. Useful picture on eBay of an ordinary single nicker:

(item ref 360431423499)

3 - Don't glue the fence - a bit of movement in the joints is necessary for the adjustment to work. With the ordinary wedged arm style, you only have to get the fence properly parallel when you get it to the final position. The movement in the joints lets you have the fence slightly crooked while you are making the adjustments.

 

[AndyT]

Undoubtedly I am the odd one out Richard as I exclusively use wooden planes, but mostly new ones.
Places like E-Bay and car boot sales may be prolific suppliers, but most are in a terrible condition with mouths far to wide for fine work and with irons that that have suffered serious GBH!
I do find that the old irons seem to be superior to the Record/Stanley types irons supplied as standard though.
The one thing missing from old planes IMO is an adjustable mouth, and once again a wooden plane with an adjustable mouth is much quicker to
adjust than a Record/Stanley type.

Roy.

Interesting and unusual!

Would I be right in thinking that you like the 'reform' planes by ECE, which give you a wooden body, a fingertip blade adjustment and an adjustable mouth? Still available new for a couple of hundred quid - but Jimi will probably find one at a boot fair for loose change!

This sort of thing:

I'd be interested to know if they are as good as the makers claim, never having handled one.

 

[dickm]

I believe that one is a rather rare "combination fillister" - described but not illustrated in Salaman's dictionary - it has a depth stop on each side, so it can be used as a moving fillister or a sash fillister. In other words, it can cut a rebate on the near side or the far side of the work, while referencing from the face side. So I would treat it with care (and a little envy!).

1 - Brasswork - my own preference would be to not clean it. I would not expect even the most careful original owner to have wasted time and effort getting the Brasso out. There are plenty of sad old cases on eBay which have been horribly polished if you want to see what it looks like.
2 - the nicker irons for this will be separate (I think) and probably a mirror pair. Useful picture on eBay of an ordinary single nicker:

(item ref 360431423499)

3 - Don't glue the fence - a bit of movement in the joints is necessary for the adjustment to work. With the ordinary wedged arm style, you only have to get the fence properly parallel when you get it to the final position. The movement in the joints lets you have the fence slightly crooked while you are making the adjustments.

Thanks for those answers, Andy. Sounds like the plane was worth the tenner that I think was what I paid for it, but it will be a user, not a seller, at least until I shuffle off this etc.. (it should be nice using a rebate plane without those awful cold metal handles on the 078)
Not sure about the brasswork - the existing stuff is really bad (greeny brown!) and the new brasswork I'm having to make shows it up something 'orrible. On the other hand, too much Brasso would look pretty bad too.
Good point about the fence - I'd been thinking there must be some exotic use with non-parallel fence, but now you say, it's obvious . Bad enough shifting the fences on a metal plough or even a router.
The dual depth stops were a bit of a puzzle too; still having difficulty imagining how the one on the "wrong" side is used.
Will have to look out the 3mm gauge plate for a pair of those nickers.

 

[Digit]

I had one at one time Andy, but no, I'm strictly trad now a days. Let's face it Andy the basic layout of both bench and specialist planes remained basically un altered for many years. The users had pretty much perfected the tool, apart from resistance to wear on the sole the iron plane was not, IMO, exactly a step forward.
It does not hold the iron as securely as the wooden wedge, backlash in the adjuster can be a nuisance, larger models are damned heavy and I find that the ability to hold the fore part of a bench plane is easier than the knob of the Record/Stanley types.
Before the Clifton et al users take me to task I confess here and now that I have never had to opportunity to use such tools.

Roy.

 

[tomatwark]

As part of my workshop sort out I am going to sell off the wooden planes I have got here and there over the years, for a rainy day project.

I have come to realise that this is never going to happen and they are sitting in drawers gathering dust.

Some just need sharpening, others a bit more TLC and one or two are probably just good for the cutters.

A few have flight holes in them but have all been treated.

My question is this.

When I list them on here what would be the best way for you guys who might be interested.

1 List the few that I thing are the nicest and then bulk the rest up.

2 List them in batches of 10 and let you have fun to see what's in the box.

3 List all 50 odd in one go if someone wants even more fun finding out what's in the box.

Tom

 

[AndyT]

As part of my workshop sort out I am going to sell off the wooden planes I have got here and there over the years, for a rainy day project.

I have come to realise that this is never going to happen and they are sitting in drawers gathering dust.

Some just need sharpening, others a bit more TLC and one or two are probably just good for the cutters.

A few have flight holes in them but have all been treated.

My question is this.

When I list them on here what would be the best way for you guys who might be interested.

1 List the few that I thing are the nicest and then bulk the rest up.

2 List them in batches of 10 and let you have fun to see what's in the box.

3 List all 50 odd in one go if someone wants even more fun finding out what's in the box.

Tom

Nice question!

Speaking as one who already has quite a selection but has been known to make room for a few more, I would prefer option 1.
A few years ago I would have preferred option 2, and that would still be a good choice, especially for anyone else wanting to try out using old planes.
The killer in these is the cost of transport - accepting that the market price for a common but useful C19th hollow / round / bead sash mould is around £3-6, posting a single plane doubles that - which may be why so many fail to sell on eBay, but go for much less at boot sales where they can be carried away.
So, if you could use one of the budget carriers and get the box delivered for under £20, option 3 might be the way to go - unless someone nearer to you wants to pick them up.

And btw, Alf is (as usual) dead right with her plea for photos which show the profile and the maker as well as the condition!

 

[tomatwark]

Thanks Andy

I know option 3 is really collect only.

I will post pics and makers when I list them.

I am just trying to find the best way of doing this, as although I have a sellers account for Ebay I would rather sell them on here and maybe get a bit less but without all the hassle of sellers fees etc and also more importantly it will give someone a bit of fun seeing what they can make of them and hopefully post pics so I can see what became of them.

Tom

 

[AndyT]

Wallace - looking at this plane in your collection:

it can be difficult to visualise exactly what shape it will produce. I just happened to spot a listing on US eBay for a similar shape plane where the seller has drawn in the resultant moulding - in this case a common pattern of architrave, still in widespread use:

I just thought this might help show what work it can do. I don't expect all sellers of old planes to follow suit!

 

[Digit]

It's not only a case of 'collect only,' such a quantity is well beyond what many of us could afford to pay.

Roy.

 

[tomatwark]

Roy

That is another reason I was asking the question, I know I will get more by selling them in smaller groups or separately but it is also the time it takes against getting rid of them in one go and with my work load at the moment time is a big factor and I need to get the workshop sorted for a large job which is happening from the middle of next month.

At the moment I am moving stuff around all the time to get to things.

It is a tricky one.

Tom

 

[Digit]

Fair comment my friend, let us hope somebody has a use for them.

Roy.