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Old Stanley’s or new Quangsheng planes? Which do I need?
- Thread starter Joe1975
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- Joined
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I would buy a second hand stanley no 4 and restore it and learn to sharpen it. The time spent will be invaluable in the future and if you move onto more expensive planes you can always turn the stanley 4 into a scrub plane. I would however get a bedrock deign 5 1/2 if you plan to use shooting board as I find it easier to hold, the extra width makes it more versatile when shooting.
raffo
Established Member
If you don't have an equipped workshop already and a bit of experience sanding, grinding, sharpening, etc., refurbishing an old plane will take some time to learn. A no. 4 is easy to refurb and can be done in as little time as one hour.
I'd suggest you find a smoother already refurbished if you want to start making right away.
Learn how to sharpen and how to use the cap iron/chipbreaker.
If you want to support the natives, consider Clifton instead of LN or LV.
A 5 1/2, specially the modern ones, are heavy. You may not appreciate that over time if you use them for rough work that needs several hours to complete.
I'd suggest you find a smoother already refurbished if you want to start making right away.
Learn how to sharpen and how to use the cap iron/chipbreaker.
If you want to support the natives, consider Clifton instead of LN or LV.
A 5 1/2, specially the modern ones, are heavy. You may not appreciate that over time if you use them for rough work that needs several hours to complete.
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
Joe - I've got a (likely 1960s) Stanley No 4 1/2 you're welcome to have (see photos below). Just cover the postage costs (I'd guess less than £10). Let me know if you want it.
CaptainBudget
Established Member
@Joe1975 Bite his hand off!!
A good source of reconditioned and ready to go is Tooltique, they put up new stock a couple of times a week and it tends not to hang about. I've had a few of these and can't fault the quality of what I got, certainly better than my ability to restore planes...
https://www.tooltique.co.uk/latest-tools/
Thank you all for taking the time to respond and help me, feel free to make any further suggestions. I am very much leaning towards some vintage Stanley’s now. I can buy and try without loosing any money because they will probably be worth more in five years time. This makes it far less stressful than trying to worry about getting everything right first time.
Getting to know the tools inside out is also important to me. I am not sold on the very thick blades of the new premium brands. That’s a lot of sharpening as I will be sharpening by hand, and I’m sure they don’t need to be that thick (Paul Sellers certainly doesn’t think so).
Even if I get a planer thicknesser I still want to be able to flatten by hand, and I can’t stick my workbench through the thicknesser every time I need to!
So a No7 is a must. (£100 ish)
I think a low angle block plane will be invaluable for tidying up end grain on small boxes etc, and also squaring off on a small shooting board. Old Stanley block planes don’t appeal so I think it will have to be a QS for £83.
I have an old Record no4, but it’s a bit sloppy and is proving difficult to adjust accurately enough to get super fine shavings for smoothing. I might just put a huge camber on it and use it as a scrub plane as someone here suggested. It has also been suggested here that this might be the best plane to buy new because it is the finishing plane. (Workshop Heaven do a package with the LABP for £225)
A no5, or a no5 1/5, or even both could be bought for £50 each so not much reason for not trying them both. One of these will probably be the ‘go to’ plane for most jobs so will look hard to get good examples.
£300 - 450 seems quite reasonable for a ‘full’ plane set up - with either no, or minimal, depreciation.
I have a cordless palm router so I can reluctantly use that for cutting to an accurate depth, so that just leaves the shoulder plane. I want to practice cutting some tight fitting mortise and tenon joints so feel as though a shoulder plane would be very useful. Axminster Tools sell a Rider 3 in 1 shoulder plane, that gets excellent reviews and should be very versatile, for £80.
Sorted. (£500 max)
Getting to know the tools inside out is also important to me. I am not sold on the very thick blades of the new premium brands. That’s a lot of sharpening as I will be sharpening by hand, and I’m sure they don’t need to be that thick (Paul Sellers certainly doesn’t think so).
Even if I get a planer thicknesser I still want to be able to flatten by hand, and I can’t stick my workbench through the thicknesser every time I need to!
So a No7 is a must. (£100 ish)
I think a low angle block plane will be invaluable for tidying up end grain on small boxes etc, and also squaring off on a small shooting board. Old Stanley block planes don’t appeal so I think it will have to be a QS for £83.
I have an old Record no4, but it’s a bit sloppy and is proving difficult to adjust accurately enough to get super fine shavings for smoothing. I might just put a huge camber on it and use it as a scrub plane as someone here suggested. It has also been suggested here that this might be the best plane to buy new because it is the finishing plane. (Workshop Heaven do a package with the LABP for £225)
A no5, or a no5 1/5, or even both could be bought for £50 each so not much reason for not trying them both. One of these will probably be the ‘go to’ plane for most jobs so will look hard to get good examples.
£300 - 450 seems quite reasonable for a ‘full’ plane set up - with either no, or minimal, depreciation.
I have a cordless palm router so I can reluctantly use that for cutting to an accurate depth, so that just leaves the shoulder plane. I want to practice cutting some tight fitting mortise and tenon joints so feel as though a shoulder plane would be very useful. Axminster Tools sell a Rider 3 in 1 shoulder plane, that gets excellent reviews and should be very versatile, for £80.
Sorted. (£500 max)
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Pete
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
If you want to get to know how to use a Bailey plane correctly, then you might seek someone
who uses a double iron plane as intended, and not the most rudimentary take on things demonstrated by most of the gurus, because those folks work hard on keeping things at a certain level, and advice by all is not helpful.
Seems like you might have some bad habits, like planing things in a vice (I'm guessing)
as even a shoddy plane what's short, should be able take reasonably wispy shavings.
Don't put a huge camber on your plane I suggest.
Keep that no.4 for a smoother, get another smoother if you wish to compare.
Use the cap iron on either, even the rough one will do.
i.e hone it to at least 50 degrees or greater, keep the mouth open, and make sure you have such a small gradual camber which allows one to slide the cap iron to 1/64" from the edge..
.
and compare that plane set up as say David W on youtube, Derek Cohen or whoever actually makes full use of the cap iron (no guru's will demonstrate so)
Compared with whomever's recommendations which would be other than exactly that,
as changing the recipe even slightly will not yield anywhere near whatsoever the same result.
Once that's done, then even the worst old plane will be seen in a different light.
Everything else is pretty much a misleading rabbit hole of expenditure in various flavours.
Good luck
Tom
What is your view on buying blatant Stanley copies from the US?
Adam W.
A Major Clanger
If you mean L-N, I believe that he's not in direct competition with Stanley and he's using his right to produce high end versions of the models where the patent has expired.
As always if you wish to buy them, that's great, if not that's great too.
Enjoy your woodwork.
pe2dave
Established Member
Close to my present list -
5 1/2 - never found the need. No 4 covers it (IMHO)
#7 ? I'm not strong enough and I've never found one.
I have a number 6, 'good enough'.
Shoulder plane? Buy one when you need it.
Router plane? Yep yep yep. I have 3. one fixed and one for marking, third to work down to fixed size - set for each job.
All (OK, I bought a #4 in 1971) from ebay, friends etc.
All work well enough for my skills.
worn thumbs
Established Member
I'm always a bit mystified by the adoption of 4 1/2's and 5 1/2's ,I know they provide a bit more exercise,but have yet to see anybody with the sheer strength to take off a dozen full width shavings with one.Given the OP's relative lack of experience I would recommend looking online for a tidy used plane,or even an untidy one,and spending a little time with some wire wool to smarten it up a bit.A few years ago I noticed a crack in my 1970's era No 4 and bought a pretty ordinary plastic handled example to use as a casting donor.It turned out to be a perfectly good plane and I use it as bought.Absolutely no faults that a clean up couldn't fix bit it wouldn't win beauty contests or allow me to brag about the exotic steels or near mythical timber used in it's construction.By way of comparison,there are people who pay an absolute fortune for mechanical watches that keep time no better than a £20 quartz cheapy,so perhaps it isn't about how well something performs it's task.
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
That comment always baffles me, good habits like planing in rows when needed,
i.e down to a line, like Charlesworth's planing methodology would suggest, and it will indeed produce full width shavings, and not just when smoothing either.
I only posted Brian Holcombe doing just that, t'other day.
Not to say I'd like using a jumbo smoother with a cap iron set to 1/64 or under,
and happy enough with the no.4 in that regards.
The no.4 plane at one time I placed no value on, what only shined after I read how to set it up correctly.
It seemed to lack quality without the cap iron being involved on tropical timbers.
Plain to see why so many folks get convinced of the apparent shortcomings of the Bailey's,
You won't often find this with the folks who know how to use'em, provided they haven't worn them out.
Orraloon
Established Member
Stanley was an American company. They later opened production in the UK to expand market share. Other countries too. They were not all that kind to Mr Bailey when they gained control of his design due to being a bigger player. Now others can make similar planes so the wheel turns. People have the choice to buy any plane they want. Being loyal to any brand is better for the marketers than it is for you.
Regards
John
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
Just replied to your message. I have way too many hand planes and really should start selling some. I started with a hand plane being an object of curiosity, and others gave their time for free to teach me how to prepare and use one - so I'm more than happy to give one away if that gets you started on the journey.
But make sure you ask for emotional support when you start looking on eBay for original Stanley No 1 planes (it's a slippery slope
)Got it, Thank you Pete
Just replied to your message. I have way too many hand planes and really should start selling some. I started with a hand plane being an object of curiosity, and others gave their time for free to teach me how to prepare and use one - so I'm more than happy to give one away if that gets you started on the journey.
But make sure you ask for emotional support when you start looking on eBay for original Stanley No 1 planes (it's a slippery slope
Note taken, I will try and restrain myself! Thank you.
Actually restraining is no fun so not making any promises.
that's great, this sort of thing is how it should beA vintage stanley 60 1/2 is seriously worth considering.
Mind you, as some will point out, a low angle block plane might be say 13°? But the bevel is up.... so add your secondary angle of say 28 to 30 degrees and you get.......
A similar figure to the 45° of a bevel down plane.
For clarity, i have a couple of low angle stanleys and a couple of standard block planes and they all work the same for me.
More important is making sure the base is actually lapped / flat and the blade is properly sharpened.
