Not happy - Tin pot council officers who can issue fines.

[budgie98]

Just got a £35 fine for going down a street in Doncaster that I have been going down for 50years - Why - some 'traffic geek in their world' decided to alter the priority to just allow buses down, which would be OK with sign post, but also decide to alter the language from what I consider normal ie Bus lane; Bus lane have been Bus lanes for ever; But No now they call them Bus Gates ! FM I saw the sign splashed along the road - Bus Gate ! whats that ! and yes there's the camera. Am I getting old, or are there too many trumped up little geek in offices giving out rules for others; and who gave them the power to fine me. Is it just me - are we getting to be over regulated Nanny State Controlled Society - who give them the authority to fine people - oh; I sent a letter explaining after I received the fine, the reply pay £35 or after 14 days £70 if you go to appeal £140, signed by Sara the Enforcement Officer. Beam me up Scottie. Any body else feel we are in a Nanny State

Baxter GATE; St Georges GATE; East Laith GATE; St Sepulchre GATE; Waterdale KingsGATE; PrinceGATE; Hall GATE; Friars GATE; Bus GATE!

 

[Agent_zed]

The licence issued by DVLA defines what vehicles can be driven as opposed to what they can be used for. For a moped it boils down to anyone over the age of 16 can use one on the public highway if they have a provisional licence and have passed a computer based theory test. If they have not taken their full test within two years they need to repeat the CBT. Until they have passed their full test they need to have L plates.

Not sure this is quite right. CBT is Compulsory Basic Training and seems to be a training session CBT motorcycle and moped training that checks you can actually ride one on the road. then you have to pass your theory test and practical test within 2 years.

If you 'want to ride a moped (up to 50cc) and you passed your car driving test before 1 February 2001' you don't need a CBT.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

It would be good if every learner driver had to take a CBT.

 

[stuart little]

What? I was in St Ives a week or two ago - didn't see anything this looking? Where is it? I'll try to look for it if I get sent back there!

I saw it on MSN, it causes serious damage to small cars getting caught in it! There's a sign that says:-"Guided buses only". (Whatever they are)

 

[stuart little]

Agreed and usually the bleep and dash graphic disappears before you can focus on it to read it and you carry on thinking WTF was that!

That's another reason I hung onto my Saab for 21 years, it only had controls for the radio/cd changer, which I hardly used, because the car was so ergonomically designed that it was easier to reach to the radio, which I didn't use much.

 

[throbscottle]

The main route through Birmingham was turned into a bus lane/bus gate combo a few years ago, so no way through for cars. One poor soul was so frustrated he was caught painting over the road markings! To make things so much worse, the main alternative route was closed due to HS2. I used to like driving in Brum - very laid back. Not now though. Worst place is Leicester, which is composed chiefly of traffic lights. A lot of impatient drivers. Not surprising when you have to queue at the light to join the queue for the lights, and infinitum.
I had to go and replace some court computers in London in about 2015. All the way to the Royal High Court, and one at Greenwich, and one other. I'd absolutely dreaded the prospect of driving there, but contrary to Yorkieguy's experience, I was pleasantly surprised. Even the big queue all the way to the M1 was relaxed.

 

[throbscottle]

I saw it on MSN, it causes serious damage to small cars getting caught in it! There's a sign that says:-"Guided buses only". (Whatever they are)

Ohhhh. Guided busses have little jockey wheels (or it might be electronic now) attached to them so they will follow a suitably designed track. Clever stuff but I thought they were only really used in large towns and cities.

 

[Blackswanwood]

Not sure this is quite right. CBT is Compulsory Basic Training and seems to be a training session CBT motorcycle and moped training that checks you can actually ride one on the road. then you have to pass your theory test and practical test within 2 years.

If you 'want to ride a moped (up to 50cc) and you passed your car driving test before 1 February 2001' you don't need a CBT.

You are correct - I mixed up the CBT and theory test.

I should have concluded with:

"All other things being equal there is no illegality or rule breaking for a takeaway to be delivered by a driver who has a provisional licence, has completed their CBT and are using a moped insured for use for hire and reward while displaying L plates."

 

[Yorkieguy]

It would be good if every learner driver had to take a CBT.

The difference is that a moped/motorbike rider has to take the CBT before they can ride on the highway, whereupon they are permitted to ride solo, or with pillion rider who has a motorbike licence.
Car learner drivers aren't permitted to drive solo , and must be accompanied by a full licence holder at all times, so are always under supervision till they pass their driving test. The standard of supervision, (unless by an ADT instructor) might well be questionable.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

My point was that the roads would probably be safer if all car learners had to do a bike CBT.

 

[Yorkieguy]

A Newspaper headline proclaims ‘Bus Gate Bonanaza’.

‘The UK’s highest earning bus gate reportedly responsible for a third of all the country’s bus lane fines brought in over £1.5 million in revenue for Brighton & Hove City Council last year’.

‘Around 38,500 fines were issued to motorists for violating the regulations working out at just over 100 infringements a day. If everyone had paid the full £70 fine (rather than the discounted £35 rate for early payment) it would have brought in just under £2.7 million’.

With so many motorists falling 'victim' it rather sounds like hard-pressed law abiding drivers are being lead into a trap in a ingenious Council money-making scam. But when you read the report by someone who has taken the trouble to investigate, it paints a very different picture. Inattentive drivers were the architect of their own misfortune. See:

The bus gate that earns £1.5 million

Bus Gates have signs painted in large letters on the road, but also, as with Bus Lanes, have signs of posts making it clear that only buses, taxis and cycles are permitted. See pic below. (There will also be signs prior to the Bus Gate which direct 'Other Traffic' where to go).

Anyone with the time and inclination can view the Bus Lane/Bus Gate signage in the Government's Traffic Signs Manual, Chapter 3, at the link below. (Fig 9-27, page 107 for example):

https://assets.publishing.service.g...le/782724/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf

Some towns, which would otherwise be overwhelmed and log-jammed with cars, have had to impose so many restrictions on parking and where you can drive, that it makes no sense to even try. It's bus, cycle or walk. My twin granddaughters graduated from Oxford this year. In the three years they were there, when visiting them, I tried only once to go into Oxford by car, and that was to stay at a hotel (With no parking). Bus lanes, bus gates, nowhere to park.

I used the 'Just Park' app to find a parking space for the time I was there. It was on the drive of someone's house (must have been worth >£2.5mill), who had long since given up their car as a liability:

JustPark

 

[Agent_zed]

Some towns, which would otherwise be overwhelmed and log-jammed with cars, have had to impose so many restrictions on parking and where you can drive, that it makes no sense to even try. It's bus, cycle or walk. My twin granddaughters graduated from Oxford this year. In the three years they were there, when visiting them, I tried only once to go into Oxford by car, and that was to stay at a hotel (With no parking). Bus lanes, bus gates, nowhere to park.

I used the 'Just Park' app to find a parking space for the time I was there. It was on the drive of someone's house (must have been worth >£2.5mill), who had long since given up their car as a liability:

JustPark

Did the park and ride into Oxford the other day. £5 for the parking and all 3 of us travelling into town. Worked really well, far less stress than trying to park somewhere in town.

 

[XTiffy]

The biggest problem today is that cars have increased in size and are warmer and quieter inside. This leads to inattention as they are sealed off from the world. My issue with driving in a strange town is that direction signs are placed by people who know where they are, when they should ask a stranger to explain. Cars should be made from glass, so drivers are aware of their own vulnerability. LoL.

 

[throbscottle]

Agree about Oxford. Too much effort to try and park in the centre. I went there to work quite a lot a few years ago. P&R too much of a gamble if I need to go back to the van for something, Park to the north or down near the river seems the best bet, and lug everything. Oxford ain't got nothing on Cambridge though - that's truly awful!

 

[Tom K]

The licence issued by DVLA defines what vehicles can be driven as opposed to what they can be used for. For a moped it boils down to anyone over the age of 16 can use one on the public highway if they have a provisional licence and have passed a computer based theory test. If they have not taken their full test within two years they need to repeat the CBT. Until they have passed their full test they need to have L plates.

The insurance cover defines what the vehicle can be used for. There are several insurers who specialise in the cover - Zego are a prime example. In some instances the cover is facilitated by the delivery service provider. The cover applies when they are “clocked on and available” and the driver pays for it by the hour. It’s called hire and reward insurance.

All other things being equal there is no illegality or rule breaking for a takeaway to be delivered by a driver who has a provisional licence, has passed his CBT and is using a moped insured for use for hire and reward while displaying L plates.

CBT is Compulsory Basic Training and is required before riding a machine of 50cc at 16yrs old or a 125cc at 17yrs old. It takes a day and includes off street manoeuvres basic knowledge of Highway Code and mechanics of machine if deemed to have passed these it is completed with a 2 hour accompanied assessment at which point you may be let out on the road.

 

[Tom K]

The difference is that a moped/motorbike rider has to take the CBT before they can ride on the highway, whereupon they are permitted to ride solo, or with pillion rider who has a motorbike licence.
Car learner drivers aren't permitted to drive solo , and must be accompanied by a full licence holder at all times, so are always under supervision till they pass their driving test. The standard of supervision, (unless by an ADT instructor) might well be questionable.

Your information is out of date you cannot carry a pillion on L plates at any time and a learner motorcyclist carrying a passenger to supervise them is of no benefit

 

[Tom K]

Not sure this is quite right. CBT is Compulsory Basic Training and seems to be a training session CBT motorcycle and moped training that checks you can actually ride one on the road. then you have to pass your theory test and practical test within 2 years.

If you 'want to ride a moped (up to 50cc) and you passed your car driving test before 1 February 2001' you don't need a CBT.

You don’t have to pass your tests you can simply renew the CBT every 2 years if you are happy with the restrictions of L plates. This practise did cause problems during covid as CBTs expired leaving some people unable to work legally as ther were no facility’s open to renew the CBT

 

[Tom K]

And most of the little buzz boxes are kids doing takeaway deliveries on a moped with L plates! How is that LEGAL ? If you are using a vehicle for a business purpose the driver or rider should hold a full licence and be covered by business insurance (I wonder how many actually are?)

Royal Mail used to operate their telegram service using boys riding on L plates some things don’t change

 

[artie]

Used to be you could legally ride a moped on a car licence.

Anyone know if that's still the case?

 

[Tom K]

Used to be you could legally ride a moped on a car licence.

Anyone know if that's still the case?

Still apply’s but you need a CBT if you passed your test after 2001
Can’t remember if that has to be renewed you would need CBT for anything bigger and many people can’t distinguish between mopeds and scooters nowadays some of which have large engines but are “twist and go” You can ride some/most of the trike variants (possibly all) on a car licence but most of the danger is still there!