Non-through cuts, a "forbidden operation"?

[custard]

Came upon this statement in an american forum

and my current tablesaw is a modern slider with riving knife and dust collection hood mounted on it, the riving knives in europe must extend above the blade so that you cannot make non- through cuts, a forbidden operation.

I am wondering if that really can be true? Isn't one of the main points and advantages of a riving knife that it can be used for non-through cuts? Sounds like this just transforms a riving knife into a tilting splitter. Surely modern saws aren't like this? One of the things I love about my old german saw is how I can do non through cuts and never have to remove the knife, it's just there.

I dunno it sounds to me like when americans say dado blades are illegal in europe, an incorrect statement but with some truth behind it.

No, it's not true that the riving knife has to extend above the blade. If you look at a larger sliding table saw, say an Altendorf for example, it will likely come as standard with a SUVA guard, and the riving knife will be below the top of the blade.

http://www.altendorf.de/en/home.html

 

[PAC1]

If you look at the HSE website a riving knife is essential but does not need to be higher than the blade. If you are making a rebate or a groove on the table saw you need a Shaw Guard or other guard that will prevent the piece of wood going airborne and will keep your fingers and push stick away from the blade.

Whats a Shaw guard? Is this another name for the same system as a Boom Arm and SUVA that I need to add to my mental list of words for the same thing?

They are different A shaw guard is a guard that presses the workpiece onto the table and against the fence usually using sprung steel to create pressure. Most spindles have shaw guards. If you have a SUVA which is sturdy I would think it could stop the work from becoming airborne. You will need to assess your kit and decide if it will provide adequate guarding

 

[DennisCA]

Yes it is heavy and sturdy, all steel construction, probably 20-25kg with arm and all.

 

[Tom MasterCraftsman]

I just read the post on table saw danger using a push stick, it's with a look!!

"it's with a look"?? :?

It well with it!

 

[Peter Sefton]

Grayorm

Hill Street Blues

I am showing my age now Peter

 

[Peter Sefton]

The HSE information sheet 16 covers the subject.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf

But the main points are

The blade "be set so that the teeth project through the surface of the material during cutting"

"A circular saw should not be used for cutting a rebate
or groove unless the blade is effectively guarded.
This is because the normal saw guard cannot be used. Suitable alternative guards and fixtures are necessary. Figure 8 shows an example of one method for rebating or grooving using Shaw guards. Where practicable, the tunnel formed by the pressure pads should be designed to meet the requirements of BS EN ISO 13857:2008.7"

"Stopped grooving should not be done on a circular sawing machine. This should be done on a vertical spindle moulding machine or a hand/pin routing machine."


"This information sheet contains notes on good practice which are not compulsory but which you may find helpful in considering what you need to do."

These regs are updated from the 1974 and came into effect when the Acops and Puwer regs were launched back in the late 1990's. At that time I was running the workshops in a college and was sent on a HSE training course to ensure our college was working within the law.
As part of the training we were reminded of the "good practice which are not compulsory" statement but if an accident were to happen you would not be able to argue your case if you had not worked within the subscribed "good practise" and we had to write safe systems of work and risk assessments.
All very tedious but it did make us very conscious of the risks involved in wood machining and that we are responsible for the people we teach or manage.
Anyone who has been in woodworking for some time may have been involved or witnessed some accidents over the years, and it does focus your mind if you have been involved!

What you do in your own home workshop's is your own risk, and I do understand the commercial restraints involved in running a small business I run two.
But the regs are there to try and keep you safe and who wants to loose their fingers or worse?

We run very practical short courses on wood machining highlighting best practice and keeping your self safe, but using the machines to their full capabilities of accuracy and productivity.

let's be carful out there

That's my sermon for this Sunday morning!

Cheers Peter