No longer remotely Shaker(ish) dining table

[ColeyS1]

Smart job adding the extra pippyness. Adding plastic packers under the clamps are something that catches me out all to often.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[Steve Maskery]

That's better but I liked the round tops of the original, it looks a bit top heavy now.
Round tops with an upright stretcher fixed to the cleats underneath the top would look lighter.
Link the legs together at the top as well.

Pete

I'm afraid I don't understand you, Pete, and I'd like to do so.

Ah yes, the penny has just dropped whilst typing this. I get what you are suggesting, I think, but the more I add at the top, the heavier it is, and, just as importantly, the higher the Centre of Gravity.

I'll have a play in SU.

S

 

[TheTiddles]

Shaker style always makes me smile, the shakers were a very small community living in a small area in a very frugal and highly regimented way, as such the style is very specific (and heavily orientated around that peg rail you can see in the pictures already posted). So, no there isn't really such a thing as shaker style fitted kitchen, tv unit (more amusingly), or my all time favourite... a drinks cabinet!

As for the legs, a discrete metal plate let in under the joint would stress relieve the joint effectively. Not everything needs to be built like a Russian tank (says the man with the 150kg dining table)

Aidan

 

[Steve Maskery]

Hey! Aidan! Where have you been?! Nice of you to drop in. Do it more often.
I think that a couple of discrete plates would be a good idea, and I would make sure that they are also discreet.

 

[TheTiddles]

Fair enough, discrete metal plates may not be useful!

I have a 3-way mitre joint on my coffee table that I was going to put a metal plate under, till I realised that as the legs cantilevered, it would be in compression not tension and therefore useless

Aidan

 

[Racers]

That's better but I liked the round tops of the original, it looks a bit top heavy now.
Round tops with an upright stretcher fixed to the cleats underneath the top would look lighter.
Link the legs together at the top as well.

Pete

I'm afraid I don't understand you, Pete, and I'd like to do so.

Ah yes, the penny has just dropped whilst typing this. I get what you are suggesting, I think, but the more I add at the top, the heavier it is, and, just as importantly, the higher the Centre of Gravity.

I'll have a play in SU.

S

I knew what I ment, I think!

I like the cylindrical tops of the legs on the orignal design.
I would keep them and add a stretcher half lapped in to the cylinder across the table top, attached to cleats to hold the top flat.

I have some nice brass staidum washers with elongated holes for attaching tops and brass rounded headed screws, if you want some.

Pete

 

[Steve Maskery]

I know you know what you meant

I've just spent a couple of very productive hours with my mate Dave who Knows All Things SketchUp.

This is where I am at the moment. I know Jacob wants me to get rid of the rail, but I don't want two tripods.

I haven't drawn it in, but I think a stainless steel disc under the column, screwed into the three dovetails would seal the deal for me. At just 1.4m (55") it is not a large table.

 

[MikeG.]

Did you have a think about my suggestion of extending the central column/ pillar/ leg downwards below the joints?

 

[AndyT]

I like that design. And I look forward to watching how you approach it. My experience of this sort of thing is pretty much limited to watching Roy Underhill in the video Woody2Shoes linked to earlier. If you've not done so yet, do watch it, if only to see how difficult it is. He shows how to mark it out and cut the joints using hand tools. If you wanted to use a powered router I guess you'd need to build some sort of trough to hold the leg, with provision for rotating it by 120 degrees. But I expect you've worked all this out already!

 

[Steve Maskery]

Yes I did, Mike
The problem with that is that I would have three open dovetails slots on view, which I don't want.
S

 

[Steve Maskery]

My experience of this sort of thing is pretty much limited to watching Roy Underhill in the video Woody2Shoes linked to earlier.

Andy, I can't find what you are referring to. Can you give me a link please? Ta.

S

 

[AndyT]

My experience of this sort of thing is pretty much limited to watching Roy Underhill in the video Woody2Shoes linked to earlier.

Andy, I can't find what you are referring to. Can you give me a link please? Ta.

S

Back on page 2:

There's a good video of Roy Underhill making the sliding dovetails for a "Hancock Pedestal Table" which I think is the sort of design that might have influenced the designer of what influenced Steve (!)https://www.pbs.org/video/the-woodwrights-shop-hancock-pedestal-table/

(Edited to fix link)

 

[MikeG.]

Yes I did, Mike
The problem with that is that I would have three open dovetails slots on view, which I don't want.
S

You could just tenon them in.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Thanks Andy (and W2S), I'd missed that.

He is amazing, really, it's just one long take, very few cuts, no umming and ahhing, very well prepared with the Blue Peter* bits. He always seems to have bloodied fingers though!

You won't be surprised to know that I am considering a more mechanical, jiggy sort of approach

I've also found a supplier of suitable stainless steel on eBay.
S
* Here's one I did earlier...

 

[Jacob]

I know you know what you meant

I've just spent a couple of very productive hours with my mate Dave who Knows All Things SketchUp.

This is where I am at the moment. I know Jacob wants me to get rid of the rail, but I don't want two tripods........

Looks better with the curve in the rail.
Re steel - your disc doesn't sound big enough - the screws would be into the DTs and too close to the end. I think you need more of a strap, set-in, out of sight, If the legs were at 90º an angle iron might do it, bent a bit to match the legs.

Yes I did, Mike
The problem with that is that I would have three open dovetails slots on view, which I don't want.
S

You'd only see them if you were lying drunkenly on the floor face up with your head between the table legs?

 

[gasman]

Hi Steve
I just reread this whole thread.... seems like a lot of people think these joints are under too much pressure. I am imagining that top must weigh a bit - 20kg?? the other bits will be weighty too. Then you only have to have someone leaning on one side and there is a whole lot of torque on one of those 4 leg 'joints'. I still think you are asking for trouble making it like that. Still loving the hippiness 'tho. BW Mark

 

[Steve Maskery]

I've not weighed it, but if you assume a density of 500kg/m3, then the whole thing without the feet comes in at about 26kg. That is less than 7kg per foot. Does that seem excessive to you? It doesn't to me, but I am no structural engineer.

 

[MikeG.]

That's "dead weight", Steve, and is pretty meaningless. "Live weight", which are the forces that anything needs to sustain due to loadings on it because of human activity, are an altogether different thing. Like I said before, someone doing as people always do, leaning on the edge of the table for support either standing up or sitting down, will, in my view, break the wood around the joints eventually. It may not happen immediately, but I have no doubt it will happen.

 

[Hornbeam]

If you look at the base of many old tripod leg tables, you will see that the joint has failed at some time. These have often been repaired and then been reinforced with a circular plate sometimes with an extended strap down the underside of the leg. The problem is that the metal can actually cause further failure as it results in different movement with the wood and pulls the joint apart.
I agree with Mike that good mortice and tenons and an extended finial below the leg joint will strengthen it up.
Not sure of teh change in design from having the legs opposite each other to having them angled. This means that to get the same stability the legs will have to be longer creating more leverage on the joint.
Nice top and burr modification
Ian

 

[Steve Maskery]

Blow the cobwebs off this...
The top has been leaning up in my dining room ever since this started. I didn't realise it has been so long!

I'm still keen to attempt my original design idea, and I've worked out how I can do it. But it requires a VERY particular board for the pillars and as yet I've not found it.

So I have decided, as an interim measure, to make a bog standard four-legs-and-aprons understructure, pine, painted something like National Trust green. Nothing fancy, just slightly tapered legs, that's it. The tapers are on the inside faces only. Tapering the outside can make the table look somewhat pigeon-toed.

So this week I bought some 3" unsorted redwood and prepped it up. The mortices are best cut while the legs are still in the square:

I might cut in a shallow bit for the haunch, but the tenon itself is quite wide, so I don't think it will be necessary, I think I'd rather maintain the integrity of the endgrain, TBH.

The taper starts 110mm below the top and goes from 60mm down to 42mm at the toe:

I'm cutting the tapers on the bandsaw, and as you might expect, I'm making a little jig. OK, for a one-off, I could easily just cut them freehand, but I have a reputation to uphold...

I stole the L-shaped extension piece I sometimes use on my SCMS when I run out of fence length andscrewed that down to piece of scrap OSB:

So now I simply put my workpiece against the L and saw away. The first cut is always wth one inside face down on the bed of the jig and the other inside face outwards. That way the workpiece is always properly seated.

So I run the whole lot through the bandsaw:

Then rotate it for the other inside face. The result is this:

And after a swift pass on the planer:

So simple it's hardly worth writing up, really. But it needs recording, as one never knows when one's clogs are going to get popped.