No Fault Evictions

[Ozi]

Any Country with "democratic" in the name. Democratic Republic of the Congo?

Any institution with Home in it's name

 

[NickDReed]

Yes in that we have more elderly people, but they are in turn healthier than elderly people from earlier periods.
Having people die younger clearly would mean avoiding any further ailments but wouldn't be a measure of the efficacy of the NHS.

I wasn't making a comment on how to measure the efficacy of the NHS.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Any institution with Home in it's name

Usually any product with "Professional" in the advertising.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Wouldn't death be an indication of no health?

You cannot have poor health if you are dead. Ergo one has to be alive to possess poor health.

The longer we live the more likely we are to suffer poor health due to chronic or terminal conditions for longer periods.

Leading us to my initial suggestion that while we as a species may live longer its possible this is done so with a significantly larger proportion of that life in what could be considered poor health.

No?

From the Lord Darzi report published yesterday:

Overall life expectancy increased in the 2000s, but plateaued during the 2010s, before decreasing during the Covid-19 pandemic. It has started to rise again now, but the absolute and relative proportion of our lives spent in ill-health has increased.

We have an increasing ability to treat chronic diseases to prolong life which may previously been terminal much earlier.

A longer life exposes the elderly to an increasing number of different chronic diseases. Many older folk will be ingesting a colourful array of pills each day to keep the grim reaper at bay.

 

[Billy_wizz]

Getting back to the OP I have seen this today …

https://news.sky.com/story/what-is-...l-and-will-it-end-no-fault-evictions-13212947

… which says …

View attachment 187877
I’m not in the UK at the moment and am finding it difficult to track down what is meant by circumstances changing.

Has anyone seen anything definitive on what is being proposed?Some rental houses are due to couples getting together when they both have a house and rent one out whilst they start living together if it doesn't work out then suddenly the house owner needs it back to move back into! I would presume that's the sort of thing they mean! Or somebody renting there house out whilst working abroad and the work contract being cut short!

 

[John Brown]

From the Lord Darzi report published yesterday:

Overall life expectancy increased in the 2000s, but plateaued during the 2010s, before decreasing during the Covid-19 pandemic. It has started to rise again now, but the absolute and relative proportion of our lives spent in ill-health has increased.

We have an increasing ability to treat chronic diseases to prolong life which may previously been terminal much earlier.

A longer life exposes the elderly to an increasing number of different chronic diseases. Many older folk will be ingesting a colourful array of pills each day to keep the grim reaper at bay.

I ingest a few, but they're all white, sadly.

 

[monster]

When do you get real poverty? Point of starvation?
One simple definition says you are not in poverty if you can afford a loaf of bread tomorrow.
Relative poverty is the issue.

'Relative poverty'! - Lord Sugar is in relative poverty to Elon Musk.....

 

[Scruples]

Parents going without meals so their kids can eat, kids still going hungry - are these just fictitious stories, or does that not qualify as poverty in your book?

As I have already mentioned - the 'poverty' bandied about these days is not real poverty but relative poverty. Are parents going without food to feed their kids or to keep their Sky accounts, phones and cars? There is no need for real poverty in this day and age. There are many benefits that help people who are struggling with the financial means.

 

[Scruples]

When do you get real poverty? Point of starvation?
One simple definition says you are not in poverty if you can afford a loaf of bread tomorrow.
Relative poverty is the issue.

And includes many who have no desire to earrn that crust. I won't reiterate the definition of relative poverty but it's not the big issue it's made out to be.

 

[Scruples]

So it's sack cloth and ashes then? Poverty = near death?
You've missed the point entirely.
In a civilised world, the point of welfare and all the other public services which people get and are entitled to, is to enable them to live a normal life without all the secondary consequences of poverty. To look after themselves well and in turn to contribute to society when opportunities arrive.
Not sure why the right are so obsessed by entitlement, or its converse, and why it's the minimal entitlements of the less well off which worries them most.

I wouldn't call myself right wing but I would say that the harder someone works, the better the rewards, unlike your chosen philosophy,perhaps? Relative poverty is a symptom of 'have nots' wanting what the 'haves' have without the effort.

 

[Cooper]

I'd like to put this question to the floor. It is primarily aimed at Jacob (who I will remove from the Ignore list temporarily) and his fellow advocates.

How exactly do you propose to tax the ultra-rich ? Is it a percentage of their total wealth ? How do you even know who they are ?

Three simple questions.

Proper regulation.
That someone can accumulate a personal fortune of hundreds of billions that it would take over 5 generations to spend leading a normal life is obscene.
They do this exploiting a society that provides all the resources of law and order, defence, infrastructure, labour and our shared environment.
Facilitated by legal and accounting and banking laws, regulations and systems that are devised by lawyers, accountants and bankers whose main preoccupation is personal enrichment.
In order to achieve a place with influence over legislation, which could write proper rules, at present requires millions, largely from individuals and corporations wishing to preserve their advantages.

Getting back to the health question, the production of affordable food is controlled by companies with far too little regulation. It is much more profitable to package sugar and fat enhanced by ultra processed food than distribute simple heathy food. (The last governments health secretary I believe was married to the CEO of a massive sugar producer.)

Proper standards, regulations and taxation of the very greedy, rather governments kowtowing to the billionaires would be a start.

 

[John Brown]

I wouldn't call myself right wing but I would say that the harder someone works, the better the rewards, unlike your chosen philosophy,perhaps? Relative poverty is a symptom of 'have nots' wanting what the 'haves' have without the effort.

Haven't we been through this before? Lots of people work very hard, nurses are the often used example, but are unlikely to get rich. Of course there will always be some who exploit the system and choose not to work, but the stories of people arriving at food banks in posh German cars are just stories.

 

[Jacob]

I wouldn't call myself right wing but I would say that the harder someone works, the better the rewards,

But it tends to be a large number of the lowest paid who work hardest and even try to hold down two jobs so that they can pay the rent etc.

unlike your chosen philosophy,perhaps? Relative poverty is a symptom of 'have nots' wanting what the 'haves' have without the effort.

So, in for instance a recession, or when a company goes bust and you get rising unemployment, this is because the unemployed have simply decided to give up work and sponge off the state?
Do you think unemployed miners or steel workers were simply opting for another life style and it had nothing to do with mines and steel works closing?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

https://www.politicalcompass.org/

Is quite interesting if you've never done it before.

 

[Jacob]

I'd like to put this question to the floor. It is primarily aimed at Jacob (who I will remove from the Ignore list temporarily) and his fellow advocates.

How exactly do you propose to tax the ultra-rich ?

Through the usual channels. Income tax, inheritance tax, property taxes (rates etc) an endless list possible! Taxes on businesses, corporation tax.

Is it a percentage of their total wealth ?

Good idea! Easiest to locate and tax would be land and property of course. Then attention to finance, including tax avoidance/evasion etc, tax havens. ..all sorts of measures possible

How do you even know who they are ?

Through the usual channels - passports, property addresses, business accounts etc etc
They are already known and being taxed at various points and don't live anonymously in a wealthy underground movement.
In fact they tend to be highly conspicuous! If not, sooner or later they have to emerge from their diamond encrusted hidy holes and move about in public, and thats when we nab them!

Three simple questions.

Why do you think it would be a problem?
Funny how people keep lining up to defend the mega rich from taxation. Are you mega rich yourself @woodieallen ? Is that why you are so keen to protect them?
Don't you think it would be a good idea to divert surplus wealth into public services for all?

 

[Spectric]

I have known many people in my career that have had no desire to better themselves career-wise.

Yes that is not uncommon, some people are content with a job that they can do without having to over think anything and go home at the end of the day and completely forget the job whilst others will need something that gives them a challenge.

Living longer is a pretty good indicator of better health

But has the human race not now peaked, we are now going back the other way as obesity and poor lifestyle choices take effect. Also the high cost of Uk living will take it's toll at some point and also some of the older generation might freeze to death if we get a harsh winter because of the wrong approach to saving money on the winter fuel allowance. Is it not a joke that you will still get it if you are an ex pat in spain ? Why not just say that you can only get the allowance if you do not pay the higher rate of tax or have assets less than whatever.

 

[Jacob]

From the Lord Darzi report published yesterday:

Overall life expectancy increased in the 2000s, but plateaued during the 2010s, before decreasing during the Covid-19 pandemic. It has started to rise again now, but the absolute and relative proportion of our lives spent in ill-health has increased.

We have an increasing ability to treat chronic diseases to prolong life which may previously been terminal much earlier.

The biggest factor increasing average longevity in the last hundred or so years has been improved survival at or after birth of children and mothers. This is largely due to hygiene. It means that more people actually reach a decent old age.
Apparently it's world wide. Even in stricken 3rd world countries the average longevity from birth is much higher than it was.

A longer life exposes the elderly to an increasing number of different chronic diseases. Many older folk will be ingesting a colourful array of pills each day to keep the grim reaper at bay.

More old people around with age related ailments, but nevertheless in better health than the equivalent aged in previous eras.

 

[Spectric]

Through the usual channels. Income tax, inheritance tax, property taxes (rates etc) an endless list possible!

Unfortunately they do tend to be mobile, move out the country, offshore accounts and all sorts of other means. Look at that plumber from London, Charlie who has built a company from nothing to now owning a twelve million pound pad in London, paid over £120 million in taxes and trained hundreds of apprentices, yes just the sort of person the Uk desperately needs but is now selling up and getting out because he has no faith in the Labour government who he believes will target people like himself for being successful and in his words he said “entrepreneurs and investors… no longer want to live under a government that punishes self-improvement and seems to loathe aspiration and ambition.”

 

[Jacob]

Unfortunately they do tend to be mobile, move out the country, offshore accounts and all sorts of other means. Look at that plumber from London, Charlie who has built a company from nothing to now owning a twelve million pound pad in London, paid over £120 million in taxes and trained hundreds of apprentices, yes just the sort of person the Uk desperately needs but is now selling up and getting out because he has no faith in the Labour government who he believes will target people like himself for being successful and in his words he said

You need to read about him. He is not "the sort of person the Uk desperately needs" he was in general a big rip off, not training apprentices and not employing many at all - they were all self employed on dodgy short term contracts

“entrepreneurs and investors… no longer want to live under a government that punishes self-improvement and seems to loathe aspiration and ambition.”

Entrepreneur yes, investor no. He is not a good example.
The idea of state investment in education, training, business support etc is to encourage and facilitate "self-improvement ..... aspiration and ambition”. Funny how you have got everything completely upside down!

 

[woodieallen]

Proper regulation.
.....

What do you mean by 'proper regulation' ? I think that it is an idealised concept but always willing to hear from someone as to (a) what they think it means and (b) how they think it can be achieved.