No Fault Evictions

[woodieallen]

They employ seasonal workers for harvest, instead of paying locals they paid the same to Poles but could charge the Poles to sleep in the sheds and so get back most of the wages for almost nothing

I understand all that. What I don't understand is how the dynamic shifted between employing UK people towards Polish. Discriminatory hiring by the farm ? There has to be some other factor.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I understand all that. What I don't understand is how the dynamic shifted between employing UK people towards Polish. Discriminatory hiring by the farm ? There has to be some other factor.

You may like to have a look at this parliamentary publication Seasonal agricultural workers

In summary - much lower wages, poor employment opportunities in home country having just joined the EU, reluctance of UK folk to do the work. Note seasonal workers had been required since WW2 so not a new phenomenon.

 

[niall Y]

You may like to have a look at this parliamentary publication Seasonal agricultural workers

In summary - much lower wages, poor employment opportunities in home country having just joined the EU, reluctance of UK folk to do the work. Note seasonal workers had been required since WW2 so not a new phenomenon.

Seasonal workers have been required much longer than that. Hop picking is a prime example. Women and children in the villages used to supply some of the labour. Much of it used to be supplied by the itinerant Gypsies, who would turn up at the farms each year.

 

[Ozi]

The difference here is we have minimum wage legislation and people found a way around it at the expense of local workers by exploiting people from a lower wage country. It's not locals not wanting the work. It's just one step further than paying less than a living wage and letting in work benefits make up the difference.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

So much for wealth taxes.

The number of countries imposing a wealth tax has dwindled. Just over three decades ago in 1990, 12 countries had one. Today, only Norway, Spain, and Switzerland remain and the yields in these countries are low while the deterrents are high.
Emmanuel Macron ditched France’s wealth tax just over five years ago following an exodus of billionaires to destinations including the UK.
According to the OECD, countries have ditched them because they cost too much to administer, distort investment decisions and punish people who are asset-rich but cash-poor. The people it’s designed to target can also leave if they want to.
In short, wealth taxes don’t really raise much cash.
The closest the UK came to introducing an explicit wealth tax one was in the mid-1970s inflation strike that led to mass strike action.
Denis Healey, then-Labour chancellor, wrote in his memoirs: “We had committed ourselves to a wealth tax; but in five years I found it impossible to draft one which would yield enough revenue to be worth the administrative cost and political hassle.”

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Seasonal workers have been required much longer than that. Hop picking is a prime example. Women and children in the villages used to supply some of the labour. Much of it used to be supplied by the itinerant Gypsies, who would turn up at the farms each year.

That hop picking was a popular holiday for east enders for a long time is a testament to the rubbish conditions in which they lived and worked for the rest of the year.

Spartan accommodation supplemented with wholesome food I assume - free beer would be a bonus!!

 

[woodieallen]

You may like to have a look at this parliamentary publication Seasonal agricultural workers

In summary - much lower wages, poor employment opportunities in home country having just joined the EU, reluctance of UK folk to do the work. Note seasonal workers had been required since WW2 so not a new phenomenon.

That was behind my original post and I agree with you.

 

[woodieallen]

So much for wealth taxes.

The number of countries imposing a wealth tax has dwindled. Just over three decades ago in 1990, 12 countries had one. Today, only Norway, Spain, and Switzerland remain and the yields in these countries are low while the deterrents are high.
Emmanuel Macron ditched France’s wealth tax just over five years ago following an exodus of billionaires to destinations including the UK.
According to the OECD, countries have ditched them because they cost too much to administer, distort investment decisions and punish people who are asset-rich but cash-poor. The people it’s designed to target can also leave if they want to.
In short, wealth taxes don’t really raise much cash.
The closest the UK came to introducing an explicit wealth tax one was in the mid-1970s inflation strike that led to mass strike action.
Denis Healey, then-Labour chancellor, wrote in his memoirs: “We had committed ourselves to a wealth tax; but in five years I found it impossible to draft one which would yield enough revenue to be worth the administrative cost and political hassle.”

Could you please send that to Ms Reeves ?

 

[ey_tony]

Forgot to add - two extreme examples of "posh idiots getting into positions of power and influence" both ex Eton and Bullingdon Club, are Cameron and Johnson.
They gave us Brexit.
Cameron also gave us the bonfire of the red tape leading to the bonfire of Grenfell Tower.
Two national tragedies/disasters within a few years of each other.
Public schooling should be a bar to public office!

You forget about war criminal Tony Blair and his national disaster. Responsible for an illegal war and the deaths of literally hundreds of thousands of innocent lives, the laying waste of an entire sovereign nation and regime change... your prejudices never cease to amaze me.

 

[AJB Temple]

Saying there will be a wealth tax is popular with unions and people such as Jacob, kneeler and Reeves. Implementing one is extremely difficult. Truly wealthy people get good advice and already have a home outside the UK and assets sheltered. There are many people who are ostensibly asset rich but cash poor. Land owning farmers are a good example: difficult to realise cash except by selling land for development. Labour may encourage this as they want to build on the greenbelt. Migrants trump food. Truly rich people are rarely stupid and started protecting themselves as soon as the Tories ejected charismatic Boris and replaced him with people no one would vote for as the writing was on the wall.

 

[Jacob]

You forget about war criminal Tony Blair and his national disaster. Responsible for an illegal war and the deaths of literally hundreds of thousands of innocent lives, the laying waste of an entire sovereign nation and regime change... your prejudices never cease to amaze me.

No I agree. Can't list all the public school tw ats who get into Parliament it'd take all day.
He seems to be on the telly a lot lately and comes over as just a bit dim.

 

[Jacob]

Saying there will be a wealth tax is popular with unions and people such as Jacob, kneeler and Reeves. Implementing one is extremely difficult. Truly wealthy people get good advice and already have a home outside the UK and assets sheltered. There are many people who are ostensibly asset rich but cash poor. Land owning farmers are a good example: difficult to realise cash except by selling land for development. Labour may encourage this as they want to build on the greenbelt. Migrants trump food. Truly rich people are rarely stupid and started protecting themselves as soon as the Tories ejected charismatic Boris and replaced him with people no one would vote for as the writing was on the wall.

Funny how people line up to protect the ill gotten gains of the wealthy.

 

[Jacob]

So much for wealth taxes.

The number of countries imposing a wealth tax has dwindled. Just over three decades ago in 1990, 12 countries had one. Today, only Norway, Spain, and Switzerland remain and the yields in these countries are low while the deterrents are high.
Emmanuel Macron ditched France’s wealth tax just over five years ago following an exodus of billionaires to destinations including the UK.
According to the OECD, countries have ditched them because they cost too much to administer, distort investment decisions and punish people who are asset-rich but cash-poor. The people it’s designed to target can also leave if they want to.
In short, wealth taxes don’t really raise much cash.
The closest the UK came to introducing an explicit wealth tax one was in the mid-1970s inflation strike that led to mass strike action.
Denis Healey, then-Labour chancellor, wrote in his memoirs: “We had committed ourselves to a wealth tax; but in five years I found it impossible to draft one which would yield enough revenue to be worth the administrative cost and political hassle.”

I see you have been reading the Telegraph again!
Funny how people line up to protect the ill gotten gains of the wealthy.

 

[AJB Temple]

Funny how people line up to protect the ill gotten gains of the wealthy.

Nonsense. I am merely pointing that you and others live in an idealistic dreamland. I have not said the wealthy should not pay more tax, I am saying that in a global environment very wealthy people can easily arbitrage tax systems - and they do. There are always countries willing to be tax havens and money flows to them faster in times of stress. The UK may well raise far more tax overall (which is what matters) by actively becoming attractive to wealthy people (low CGT etc), but the politics of envy prevents this. We need practical measures not wish lists, and the current lot led by Starmer are not clever enough to set ideology aside in favour of benefiting the population.

 

[Jacob]

Nonsense. I am merely pointing that you and others live in an idealistic dreamland. I have not said the wealthy should not pay more tax, I am saying that in a global environment very wealthy people can easily arbitrage tax systems - and they do. There are always countries willing to be tax havens and money flows to them faster in times of stress. The UK may well raise far more tax overall (which is what matters) by actively becoming attractive to wealthy people (low CGT etc), but the politics of envy prevents this. We need practical measures not wish lists, and the current lot led by Starmer are not clever enough to set ideology aside in favour of benefiting the population.

So are you saying it isn't worth the bother?
What about their assets and activities here in the UK, are they not worth bothering about either?

 

[AJB Temple]

So are you saying it isn't worth the bother?
What about their assets and activities here in the UK, are they not worth bothering about either?

I am saying you are missing the point. The objective is to maximise tax take whilst not wrecking the economy or disadvantaging vulnerable people and ordinary pensioners. Smart people set envy politics aside and focus on what will bring in the most money. What we want is far more rich people and rich businesses to tax, so we need policies that attract them, not naive (and too late) policies that drive them overseas. So far we have no plan set out: just sound bites. Reeves is not economically literate, and Raynor even less so. Starmer appears malleable and vulnerable to union pressure that has already led to silly decisions.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I see you have been reading the Telegraph again!
Funny how people line up to protect the ill gotten gains of the wealthy.

It doesn't much matter where facts come from.

 

[Blackswanwood]

Reeves is not economically literate,

I’ve heard that said a few times - what leads you to say it? There’s obviously a difference between being economically literate and having a view on how to deal with matters that not all the electorate agree with.

I should add I didn’t vote Labour but have met her last year through work and she was imho pretty switched on.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I’ve heard that said a few times - what leads you to say it? There’s obviously a difference between being economically literate and having a view on how to deal with matters that not all the electorate agree with.

I should add I didn’t vote Labour but have met her last year through work and she was imho pretty switched on.

Rachel Reeves seems to be more than adequately provided with intellect - apparently a chess champion and did PPE at Oxford. Like many politicians, irrespective of party, dogma and the party line can often compromise objective economic analysis.

 

[ey_tony]

Is anyone who is ideologically left minded under any illusion that taxing the wealth of the country is going to somehow improve things?
Ideology is a terrible affliction as it overrules common sense.

Punitive taxation never worked in the past and with technology the way it is today, it's going to be even less successful and all it will do is drive away those who are in a position to up-sticks and leave for countries with less draconian tax laws.
One of the driving forces of capitalism is profit generation. Profit generation generally translates into more employment and business investment. Taxing profits to excess kills the incentive to invest in the first place..

The outcome will be that there will be less investments in British companies, less available employment, larger school class sizes and over-subscribed state schools, couple that with ill-thought out proposed employment laws and you have a recipe for stagnation or even recession.

Take the average city and town high streets. Property rents and business rates are colossal so most town and city high streets are shadows of their former days. Couple that with ridiculous parking restrictions and charges including ULEZ, there are fewer successful businesses located in the heart of our towns and cities. Many have either moved to trading areas where rates and rents are lower and parking is largely free or even solely trading online. Why would entrepreneurs work hard just to pay high taxes with lower profits?