Socialism, communism and capitalism all sound good on paper. The problem is that those who consider themselves fit to run a country and implement whichever political system or ideal are, in reality, the worst people for the job. Capitalism has been allowed to run to excess in my opinion. There really shouldn't be a group named "the in work poor" in any economically high functioning first world country
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What about quotes from non authority?
niemeyjt
Established Member
Bees kill off their unproductive workers and bad queens.
I guess that is one way to reduce unemployment - and to keep the leaders minds focussed
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
You mean things like quoting your mother
in law, or some man you met at the petrol station? That's the anecdotal fallacy, according to my next door neighbour.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
They aren't supposed to choose themselves - we have democracy.
But alarmingly Starmer has been opposed to it and Labour have dropped in their own people instead of allowing democratic selection process, which is not good.
Due to a crack-pot ideology involving de-regulation and free markets.
Exactly. Whatever the system is it has failed and legislation to correct things would be quite straightforward
Or yourself
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
It was intended to be humorous.
So was mine.
ey_tony
Established Member
Chris I could also do lots of reading up on religions but it won't change my mind about them. No one actually needs them unless they have a truly weak mind unable deduce and differentiate between fact and fiction.
Likewise I'm not against the fundamentals of socialism in fact I support many of the values of socialism which contribute to creating a fairer society for everyone but anyone listening to socialists would think that socialism is something special. It's definitely not!
Most of the so called core values of socialism are just common sense with a common sense of purpose. Socialists for instance always claim that the NHS was their idea but a similar idea was actually mooted by Tories at least a decade earlier but no one hears about that.
The NHS was a great idea at its inception but it was never intended to be the behemoth that it is today. Socialism is great on paper but when put into practice that's where the story falls flats.
There are many things to be grateful for with regard so called socialism but I can foresee huge issues with working practices in the coming years if this lunatic PM and his cohorts get their way.
There is going to be a fast growth in unemployment that's for sure and an equally fast migration of businesses to other countries to reduce costs and get away from proposed impractical working practices.
These days it's costly enough for businesses to employ people, so allowing workers for instance to pick and choose their own working hours etc is a sure fire way for employers to rethink their business plans entirely if such practices become law. I guarantee that as a result there will be increased unemployment attributable to the points I've mentioned.
Starmer will not gain another term in office, in fact I'd be very surprised if he lasts out this parliament. He has already lost a large portion of the population by stripping the winter fuel allowance from millions of pensioners so that he can give the train drivers and doctors way above inflation wage rises which will not be forgiven at the polling booths.
Most new governments take a while to attract sleaze labels but this one has done it in record time with Starmer's highly questionable civil servant appointments.
If this is an example of a socialist government at work, I'd say bring back the Tories even as bad they were.
Everyone knew there was a 'black hole' in government finances, that is all except Starmer and Reeves...arguably they're liars it's as simple as that.
woodieallen
Established Member
I read in the papers today that the exodus of entrepreneurs et al has already started.
I feel sorry for both pensioners and those approaching retirement. If the rumours are to be believed and oncurrent form from Kneeler I can quite believe them, then the putative taxing of anyone taking a chunk from their pension pot is going to screw up many retirement plans. For example, say you'd planned to take out £100,000 of your hard-earned pension to pay off your mortgage. Now you're going to have to take out £140,000 assuming 40% tax. But it doesn't stop there because you'll be paying tax on that extra £40k so you're going to have to take out even more which then gets taxed...
Perhaps this is what Kneeler and the communists want. Grind everyone down to the lowest common denominator.
Our decision has been made and we're emigrating to France.
I feel sorry for both pensioners and those approaching retirement. If the rumours are to be believed and oncurrent form from Kneeler I can quite believe them, then the putative taxing of anyone taking a chunk from their pension pot is going to screw up many retirement plans. For example, say you'd planned to take out £100,000 of your hard-earned pension to pay off your mortgage. Now you're going to have to take out £140,000 assuming 40% tax. But it doesn't stop there because you'll be paying tax on that extra £40k so you're going to have to take out even more which then gets taxed...
Perhaps this is what Kneeler and the communists want. Grind everyone down to the lowest common denominator.
Our decision has been made and we're emigrating to France.
monster
Established Member
Socialism is fine - just as long as its participation is voluntary.
Insurance is a good example of the socialisation of the effects of a risk. Here we voluntarily choose to enter a scheme and seek the cover of the socialised effects off spreading the cost whose use is only triggered in an hour of need.
monster
Established Member
How can any one person be fit to run any country!
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
"Most of the so called core values of socialism are just common sense with a common sense of purpose. Socialists for instance always claim that the NHS was their idea but a similar idea was actually mooted by Tories at least a decade earlier but no one hears about that."
Usually credited as first - Chancellor Otto von Bismarck's Health Insurance Act of 1883 established the first social health insurance system in the world.
An before anyone takes exception to the use of the word insurance - the Kings Fund and OECD analysis comes to the following conclusion:
However, there is no evidence that one funding model or particular mix of funding mechanisms is inherently superior to others. As the OECD concluded, ‘There is no health care system that performs systematically better in delivering cost-effective health care’ (OECD 2010)
Usually credited as first - Chancellor Otto von Bismarck's Health Insurance Act of 1883 established the first social health insurance system in the world.
An before anyone takes exception to the use of the word insurance - the Kings Fund and OECD analysis comes to the following conclusion:
However, there is no evidence that one funding model or particular mix of funding mechanisms is inherently superior to others. As the OECD concluded, ‘There is no health care system that performs systematically better in delivering cost-effective health care’ (OECD 2010)
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
I can remember when I was fit enough to run.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
No it's the right who think socialism is something special and somehow a threat to society. Socialists just think of it as normal - it's how society has to be run.
The idea that welfare should be the responsibility of us all, is older than Christianity.
Perhaps because they didn't implement it, whereas Labour did, in 1948, largely thanks to Aneurin Bevan
A smaller behemoth would lead to a worse service. It's grown firstly because we can afford it and secondly because amazing advances in the science tend also to be expensive
There is no alternative and it is very successful. Can you point to a country anywhere which does not have a large degree of socialism in it methods?
Complete nonsense - shorter working hours means more employment for other people. Higher pay means more spending and benefits businesses. Austerity just didn't work, as we all now know.
Not only that - many object to his support for the Israeli genocidal regime, purging the left of the party (i.e. Palestine sympathisers) and his attacks on party democracy
I half agree with that except that bring back the tories would be a major disaster, as they have demonstrated over the years. They became a Monster Raving Loony Party circus, with Johnson and Truss as the biggest clowns, austerity and Brexit as their toxic legacy.
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Terry - Somerset
Established Member
Starmer/Labour has a massive majority to do precisely as he wishes for the next 5 years.
Political opposition is inconsequential - they will not stop a single piece of legislation. Even challenges to some of the detail can be ignored given the Labour majority.
He has stuffed is cabinet and ministerial team with his supporters reliant upon his patronage - rebellion seems unlikely during a first term. If he wins a second or third term dissent will likely grow - as it did for Thatcher, Blair, Johnson etc.
His actions thus far are utterly predictable. Aspirations pre election - no tax rises, party of growth etc - are being submerged beneath a torrent of carefully chosen sound bites. Blame Tories for the mess left whether justified or not.
Any thought that he would lead a new era of honesty and integrity in politics is laid bare - he is a political animal who wants to win at any cost and will play the political game to stay there. He will be somewhat left of centre in policy but I still think largely rational.
We are stuck with this government, almost certainly lead by Starmer for the next 5 years.
The Tories were the architects of their own massive defeat. A second term for Starmer relies upon (a) a credible opposition (which does not exist right now) and (b) whether in 5 years time Labour have actually delivered (which may be beyond their direct control).
Until then we have no choice but to accept what emerges - some good and some bad, no doubt.
Political opposition is inconsequential - they will not stop a single piece of legislation. Even challenges to some of the detail can be ignored given the Labour majority.
He has stuffed is cabinet and ministerial team with his supporters reliant upon his patronage - rebellion seems unlikely during a first term. If he wins a second or third term dissent will likely grow - as it did for Thatcher, Blair, Johnson etc.
His actions thus far are utterly predictable. Aspirations pre election - no tax rises, party of growth etc - are being submerged beneath a torrent of carefully chosen sound bites. Blame Tories for the mess left whether justified or not.
Any thought that he would lead a new era of honesty and integrity in politics is laid bare - he is a political animal who wants to win at any cost and will play the political game to stay there. He will be somewhat left of centre in policy but I still think largely rational.
We are stuck with this government, almost certainly lead by Starmer for the next 5 years.
The Tories were the architects of their own massive defeat. A second term for Starmer relies upon (a) a credible opposition (which does not exist right now) and (b) whether in 5 years time Labour have actually delivered (which may be beyond their direct control).
Until then we have no choice but to accept what emerges - some good and some bad, no doubt.
monster
Established Member
What I am pondering is how these 1.5 million houses are going to be built in effectively 4 years rather than 5, now that builders will be able to chose to work 4 rather than 5 day weeks? Tick Tock...
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Working 60 hours a week won't do it either.
I doubt Labour has the answer, least of all how to do it without raising the cash through taxation.
Fiddling with planning rules would take years to have any effect.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
No surprises there. High rents and housing shortage.
Everybody is doing it, tenants and home owners making a bit of cash by Airbnb and sofa surfing or holidaying. Local lad I know lets his home for a week, or a weekend, whilst he goes off on travel excursions, with enough to live on from rent, without working.
It's become normal in popular holiday spots with locals taking to caravans for the season etc.
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