No. 4 Plane Conversion to a Scraper

[rxh]

Hmmm - I smell a something fishy.... you bought that didn't you; go on admit it... it's Lie Nielson's stab at making a conversion kit prototype, it's ok you can tell me I won't tell a soul.

Seriously though, your small router plane (had the pleasure of handling it at Richard A's do) was excellent, and now this is also... excellent. Just as a f'instance how much would it cost to have those parts made as a conversion kit? I think you'd definitely have some takers on here.

The only thing I'd mention though is you say you'd not use this on a good #4 - is there something about this kit that means it can't be set back up as a smoother? I'm keeping in mind that Condeesto mentioned it might require a perfectly lapped sole to give perfect results (Although I agree old pre '70's #4's seem to be everywhere, I've got 4 here and 2 of them are just sat here as I can't seem to sell them - £50 each delivered to you Heimlaga )

Thanks for the kind comments. At the moment I don't make things for sale but I have been known to do swaps occasionally . Maybe after I have retired, which may not be all that far away .....
The main part was made a little oversized then filed down to a good fit. I fitted it nicely to my No. 4 but found it needed further filing for a good fit to the plane body I bought - so because of these manufacturing tolerances either the customer would need to do the fitting or else send me the plane for me to do it. It is not all that difficult but needs a bit of patience: first the relevant parts of the plane are brushed with engineers' blue and then the part is offered up. Where there blue is transferred shows where to file the part. Then these operations are repeated until a good fit is obtained.

Richard will be back on this point, but I know he had to open the mouth a bit. It might be that the common No4 'tune-up' to a thick iron and cap (QS for example) would convert back, as you generally need to open the mouth for those iron set-ups anyway. I suspect the idea is a cheap donor No4 and keep it as a scraper.

Yes Douglas, I think it could be converted back using a thick blade as you say. When I tried it first I found the mouth gap rather tight but I didn't want to take a file to my No. 4 so I bought a spare body to modify (for the princely sum of 99p + P&P). Any cheap Bailey style plane could be used provided its sole is flat, or can be made flat - so I agree that would be the best way to go in order to have a scraper ready when needed.

 

[3dwilliams]

HI,
You said if anyone would be keen to have a go that you would be prepared to provide details of the parts and how you made it, would you still be prepared to do that?

 

[rxh]

Yes, I can give you a scale drawing with list of materials, notes and options for British or Metric threads. If you PM me your address I’ll put a copy in the post, or I can e-mail you a PDF if you are able to make A3 size prints.

The only difficulty in making it was the connection between the front plate and top plate of the main assembly, which required careful filing.

Because of the manufacturing tolerances in plane castings it is necessary to make the main assembly slightly oversize and file it down to fit. I made mine fit a No.4 body nicely then tried it on another No.4 body and it required more filing for a good fit on that one. It is not all that difficult but needs a bit of patience: first the relevant parts of the plane are brushed with engineers' blue and then the part is offered up. Where there blue is transferred shows where to file the part. Then these operations are repeated until a good fit is obtained.

Another thing that should be mentioned is that I found it necessary to open up the plane mouth a little in order to avoid clogging with the shavings.

 

[jim1950]

very nice looking job, wish I had one when I was scarping large hardwood worktops in the joiners shop would have saved all them blistered thumbs and finger go black working on oak tops.

Great job

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

That's a nice job. Can you show some of the shavings it makes?

Another thing for anyone here to try is to reverse the blade in a Stanley and use it bevel up. With a 35 degree bevel, this will create a cutting/scraping angle of 80 degrees. It will work like a scraper plane.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[rxh]

Thanks Jim and Derek. Here is a photo with some shavings:

 

[3dwilliams]

"Yes, I can give you a scale drawing with list of materials, notes and options for British or Metric threads. If you PM me your address I’ll put a copy in the post, or I can e-mail you a PDF if you are able to make A3 size prints."

It says I have not posted enough not the forum to us the PM function! How frustrating. Does anyone know how many posts I have to make to be allowed this use this function?

 

[memzey]

Three. You should be ok now.

 

[Jeff57]

This is an experiment to make a scraper plane using a Stanley No. 4 as the basis. The blade is held against a metal support which is bolted to the frog mounting holes in the casting. I made the parts and temporarily fitted them to my No. 4 to satisfy myself that the idea would work. Then I bought a No. 4 body from a well known auction site, transferred the parts to it together with new handles that I had made. The blade is made of 1/8" thick O1 steel, bevelled at 45 degrees and inclined forward at 20 degrees from vertical. The usual style of front knob would be no good because the forward leaning blade would get in the way of a proper grip. I had to open up the mouth a little to allow good clearance for shavings. The central screw is first tightened to hold the blade and then the two small screws are tightened to provide additional security against the blade rotating in use. The completed plane works well.

 

[collinb]

I realize that this is an old thread.
Has a product been created from this design?
Alternatively, are the mechanical drawings available? (I have a machinist at my place of employment ...)

 

[rxh]

I realize that this is an old thread.
Has a product been created from this design?
Alternatively, are the mechanical drawings available? (I have a machinist at my place of employment ...)

I have sent copies of the drawing to several people who wanted to make a scraper plane for their own use but I don't know if any of them completed it. I also had an an enquiry from someone in the USA about manufacturing them under licence but it came to nothing. Anyway, collinb, please send me a PM if you would like me to send you the drawing.

 

[oaksquare617]

That is some beautiful plane, I would love to take a crack at it. Is there a way that I might be able to get a hold of your notes as a new member? Apparently I’m not able to PM just yet. I am a fan of designing my tools, but when something is right it’s right, and I’d like to build yours. Please let me know how I might proceed, thanks.
-Mike

 

[rxh]

That is some beautiful plane, I would love to take a crack at it. Is there a way that I might be able to get a hold of your notes as a new member? Apparently I’m not able to PM just yet. I am a fan of designing my tools, but when something is right it’s right, and I’d like to build yours. Please let me know how I might proceed, thanks.
-Mike

Thanks Mike. Yes, I can send you the details. I believe that you will be able to send me a PM after you have made three posts.