Newbie + a question

[Norton]

Doug - I won't deny having thought about this!!

 

[Norton]

I ran the motor with belts on and no blade for 15 minutes straight and no blown fuses. It seems safe to assume the saw is fine and it's my power supply I need to correct.

So I have two choices.

1. Get one of these - SSC-25 | United Automation Soft Starter, 230 V ac, 1 Phase | RS Components and hope for the best.
2. However for the same cost I could but the bits needed for a 16a wall plug and fit that buuuuuuut, I'm in a rented house at the moment and I'm not so keen on DIY home electrics (my step dad is an electrical engineer working for a big ship builders and would be basically doing this).

Ps, yes definitely 1.5kw according to the motor plate.

 

[Stevekane]

Okay, if its only 1500w (1.5kw) then I expect you could fit one of the regular ebay ones that lots of people have used, they are from memory around £10 or £15 and work just great, and you would be giving your saw a nice permanent upgrade to soft start which of course you would take with you if you moved.
Steve.

 

[Norton]

Thank you. I have seen those, are they reliable? I don't want it to develop an internal fault and short to its body/saw body!

 

[Stevekane]

Im afraid I couldnt say how reliable or safe they are, I just followed the flock and did what they did and for me its worked just great, a massive improvement. I will post if I can a link to the chap who I bought from, he seemed to be selling electronic gear and components as I recall and it came with a wiring diagram that he had provided, its still like everything the same old made in china stuff but Ive not heard of people having issues with them. With my saw I was after looking at it able to fit my module without cutting any of the original wiring, so if it didn't work out or I had been unhappy with it I could have just reverted to original.
Here is the item number, the cost is £16. Item number 265661997497 there is probably a better way of linking you to it but Im afraid its beyond me! Btw the seller says they are good for 2500 watts and mentions Table Saws in his applications.
Good luck,,
Steve

 

[Norton]

It's worth a shot, I'll give it a go.

I got this from Lee at ALT saws earlier.

'The old T/A300 240 volt model had a 2.2KW – 3HP motor on, this will draw 10-16amp on start up & underload,

If you change your 13amp plug for a 16amp type (like attached) and 16amp socket,

and make sure your fuse box has at least a 25amp `C` or `D` type protection'

A moot point I guess if I have the lower power motor.

 

[Stevekane]

I do hope it works okay, certainly I seem to recall a number of posts where people were either using or planning to use them to tame the Inrush current, so do let us know how you get on.
Intresting what chummy said about the motor size, I have no experiance of quality professional type machery but I was a bit surprised to hear your one was the same size as my little cheapy site saw,,still it clearly works and thats the important thing.
Steve.

 

[Norton]

Yes thinking more about it it does seem underpowered. And hearing that there's another model of mine that had much more power yet still single phase. Something doesn't add up. All the stickers and plates over my saw indicate it should be 2hp.

I have a fence post, African hardwood (apparently, no idea what species it just VERY heavy), incredibly dense and about 150mm thick. I may try a full height cut through it and see what it does!

 

[pe2dave]

I have a welder with a short 13A to 16 A extension lead. The 13 A plug has a 15 A fuse wire in it as Doug said above. While I couldn't recommend this from a safety point of view it does work and for short periods and no other big loads on the ring at the same time I can't see a problem.

Minor one. If you have a fire, an investigator found your setup, it would probably negate your insurance.

 

[Stevekane]

Re it seeming underpowered, Im sure it will be fine and Ive not so far felt my saw was underpowered, but getting stuck in straight away with really thick heavy timber might not be ideal esp as you perhaps dont know what your blade is like or if its suitable for say Rip cutting hardwoods, in my limited experience the blade has made a considerable difference in how and even if it cuts.
But do let us know how it goes as its always intresting to hear how people got on with these type of problems.
Steve.

 

[Fergie 307]

You really ought to install a proper 16A socket and plug, with suitable protection at the board. Fit soft start by all means of you wish, it's a good feature to have. But the proper socket and plug should cure the issue. If it all went Pete Tong and bits of fuse wire were found in the plug your insurance company will drop it like a hot brick. I have various round 16A sockets around the workshop for this very reason. You can also get circuit breakers with a slow operation so they can deal with the momentary high load without tripping, can't recall the proper name for them but I'm sure one of the Sparks on here will oblige.

 

[thikone]

and make sure your fuse box has at least a 25amp `C` or `D` type protection'

I don't think you need 25A fuse, but defenitely it should be 'C' type protection. In fact, even even 13A with 'C' curve might be enough.

So many times I see in comments to install 16A or 25A fuse while the load will only draw high current for a short period of time and while running will probably never exceed 10A. What you need is delayed reaction that is denoted by a letter B, C, D. Usually, in residential area type B is installed.

My Felder machines came with the manual that stated to use C 16A breaker. Works fine even with 4kW three-phase motor. After short startup it doesn't consume a lot, much less that 4kW, even under moderate load.

I also have spot welding thing from China. It was tripping B 13A breaker, but works fine with C 16A but doesn't work even with B 25A.

The beauty of changing from B to C is that it would still trip with continues current exceeding rated current 13A or 16A, but will allow for short spike of current that is too short to damage the wires it protects.

 

[Fergie 307]

I don't think you need 25A fuse, but defenitely it should be 'C' type protection. In fact, even even 13A with 'C' curve might be enough.

So many times I see in comments to install 16A or 25A fuse while the load will only draw high current for a short period of time and while running will probably never exceed 10A. What you need is delayed reaction that is denoted by a letter B, C, D. Usually, in residential area type B is installed.

My Felder machines came with the manual that stated to use C 16A breaker. Works fine even with 4kW three-phase motor. After short startup it doesn't consume a lot, much less that 4kW, even under moderate load.

I also have spot welding thing from China. It was tripping B 13A breaker, but works fine with C 16A but doesn't work even with B 25A.

The beauty of changing from B to C is that it would still trip with continues current exceeding rated current 13A or 16A, but will allow for short spike of current that is too short to damage the wires it protects.

Thats what I was on about, the C type breaker. Thanks for the correct term.

 

[DRC]

Wow1 reading the 13amp 15amp fuse wire and other electrical nightmare advice you should post your questions to "Talk Electrical Forum" they will get a good laugh and a nasty shock too. From an electrical engineer.

 

[Fergie 307]

So what would you advise is the correct solution to the problem the OP is having.

 

[Norton]

I'm going to do both. 16a socket and a soft start.

 

[Stevekane]

I don't think you need 25A fuse, but defenitely it should be 'C' type protection. In fact, even even 13A with 'C' curve might be enough.

So many times I see in comments to install 16A or 25A fuse while the load will only draw high current for a short period of time and while running will probably never exceed 10A. What you need is delayed reaction that is denoted by a letter B, C, D. Usually, in residential area type B is installed.

My Felder machines came with the manual that stated to use C 16A breaker. Works fine even with 4kW three-phase motor. After short startup it doesn't consume a lot, much less that 4kW, even under moderate load.

I also have spot welding thing from China. It was tripping B 13A breaker, but works fine with C 16A but doesn't work even with B 25A.

The beauty of changing from B to C is that it would still trip with continues current exceeding rated current 13A or 16A, but will allow for short spike of current that is too short to damage the wires it protects.

Many thanks for that explanation and examples, really useful information and much appriciated,
Steve.

 

[johnbs]

The devil is in the detail.

1. The saw, as others have said, will draw several 10's of amps during start-up.
2. A "Type C" MCB rated at 16A should be fine. I can't find a solution using a 13A plug, so, as you're in rented, a couple of options (with landlord approval)
- assuming you're in the garage or equivalent, if the sockets are on a 32A ring-main, break in and have installed a small garage consumer unit. This can be equipped with one 16A Type C to feed a couple of 16A blue CEE sockets, and one 16 or 20A Type B to feed replacement "13A" sockets.
- if the sockets are on their own dedicated spur back to the main fuse box, replace the MCB there with a 16A type C and replace the 13A sockets with the 16A CEE .

 

[Fergie 307]

I dare say it never had a plug on it originally, but was intended to be wired directly into a suitable switch, hence the problems, and bodges! Always amazes me how some people seem to lead a charmed life and do some really dangerous stuff and get away with it for years. Knowing my luck I'd be a crispy critter the first time I turned something on !

 

[DRC]

So what would you advise is the correct solution to the problem the OP is having.

Ask permission if you have to from the landlord then get a qualified electrician to look at the installation and advise.