New Small Wood Shop Machinery - Advice Required

[Fisher1980]

Hi Folks,

My first post here, so please be gentle with me.

So what brings me here, well I've moved my little family into a new home, and now have no money to go out partying etc. coupled the fact I've turned 40, I thought it was about time to setup my self up with a new hobby and learn some new skills. So I've decided to set myself up with a wood working shop. Oh my father (if alive) would be very proud.

Jokes aside, I do wish to set up a nice small(ish) wood working shop at the side of my house. It will roughly be about 8ft x 16ft, give or take.

So I'm looking to purchase some new equipment (waits for the onslaught of why don't you buy second hand). I'm looking for any advice on machines or in general from anybody willing to give it.. So all help on new equipment, your 2 pence worth is greatly received.

Firstly then I've been looking at these machines and my questions would be as follows:-
1) Which would you buy and why ?
2) Would you recommend another similar machine and why?

Thicknesser / Planer / Jointer....
1) Dewalt DW733 - Great machine, very highly praised on the web/forums, has a 12" width capacity and powerful motor. However I would possibly still need a jointer.
2) Startrite SD31 - Both a thicknesser and jointer in one, 12" capacity in both areas, Cast iron single plane bed, although 16amp.

Table/Bench Saw....
1) Dewalt DW745 - Again a great well respected machine. Powerful motor, Portable, 10" blade diameter.
2) Charnwood W629 - Cast iron trade table saw with 10" blade, Sliding carriage, induction motor.

I think that's enough to get my head around at the moment, I luck forward to hearing your advice.

Cheers Chris

 

[Fitzroy]

What do you want to make?

Personally I really enjoy buying dodgy old timber cheap on gumtree that some bloke cut down 20 years ago has finally realised will never be used, and making stuff out of it. My planer (Mike will be along shortly to slap you for the use of the J word) and thicknesser are key to enabling this.

My workshop is 20’x10’ and separate planer and thicknesser machines is a bit of a space hog.

Fitz.

PS I’m a 2nd hand cast iron kind of guy so limited new tool knowledge.

 

[adidat]

I think there is much to be said about 2nd hand machinery. With some careful searching your money will ultimately go further and get you far superior machinery.

Large startrite bandsaw, hammer p/t and Sedgwick table saw. All excellent machines in great condition for 3 grand which I'm aware is a lot of money but I'm guessing 8k new so a significant saving. For machinery that is like new. Quality built in Europe and the uk with proper cast iron beds.

Unless you are planning to make dolls house furniture it would always be a good idea to get the biggest machines you can fit in the space avliable.

From another chris!

Apologies if this isn't the advice you're after.

Adidat

 

[MikeG.]

Hi and welcome.

I don't think you've got room for a table saw in a 5m x 2.4m workshop. I suggest you stick to a planer thicknesser (it's not a jointer!!!!..unless you're American), and a bandsaw. That will cover all your ripping and board preparation needs if you don't want to rely on hand-tools for these tasks. Tablesaws consume an awful lot of space, because of the space they need around them in which to work. I have an 8m x 5m workshop, and I haven't got room for one. And as always, I'd suggest you buy second hand. You can get an awful lot of good solid cast iron for the same money as a lightweight pressed metal and aluminium modern machine, albeit you'll get more whistles and bells on the newer machines.

 

[Lons]

Hi Chris
It's difficult to offer advice without further information.

* What do you want to use the workshop for? Is it for household repairs & projects, Do you want to make furniture, kids toys? Without an end result how are you going to plan the workshop?

* Do you already have any tools and if so what are they?
* Do you have a workbench?

If you don't own at least the basic hand tools my suggestion would be to forget about machines at the minute and concentrate on those ( I'm not a hand tool purist btw ), nothing to stop you when building the workshop to plan ahead for machinery and put in the necessary wiring of course.
Without saws, planes, chisels etc and a way to keep them sharp there's little point in sticking wood through a thicknesser as you can do nothing else with it.

 

[Ttrees]

A large bandsaw would be the most versatile, and least dusty.
If you don't have 16 amp sockets then look for three phase machines which would cost much less
than used single phase.
A hundred quid VFD will run a large 24" bandsaw, or 12" tablesaw on the household plug no bother, as its the starting inrush current of the motor what blows or trips a fuse.
A VFD/inverter has an easily adjustable soft start so you can tune it to start slower if you need.
My 24" ACM saw consumes the same as my ageing laptop whilst running.

If you see a triangle or 240v symbol on the motor nameplate, it would mean its "dual voltage" then its more suitable for plug and play, compared to a fixed motor wired 380 or 400v only motor.
Most newer machines built in the last few decades will have dual voltage motors
(always be sure that you can see the motor, as it could have been swapped out)

Its no bother for an absolute complete novice to hook up a VFD/inverter,
It is many folks preference in the small hobby shop.

Although if you bought a planer thicknesser it would complicate matters as there is two motors involved, and someone else will have to advise you on that.

Even though your thread is titled as such.....
I get the sense you might be more persuaded to get something good, rather than ticking off a
shopping list whilst putting everything on wheels....and having something like this happening.
(Beware of gory video of planer accident :shock: )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDeZaPhmY8Y
Just my 2cents

Anyway, Plenty of folks will help here you if you want advice on anything

Tom






I

 

[Fisher1980]

Morning Folks,

Some great advice coming through, many thanks.

So I would be using this shop to mainly make furniture, or that's the idea, small items to begin with and then see how it goes, or what the space allows.

I apricate space is at a premium. I did try to take this into account with some of the machinery that I first posted.

The Dewalt DW733 - this is a small bench top thicknesser and could be stored away before/after use.
The Startrite SD31 - This is a bigger machine, however it does combine both a planer and a thicknesser in one, therefore I wouldn't need the separate DW733.

The Dewalt DW745 - Is again a bench top saw, this could be mounted flat into a large work bench?
However the Charnwood W629 is a larger machine, more trade spec and with a better cross cut sled and cast iron tables etc.

Lot and lots to think about, I sit here looking at what I'm about to do and cant help but think of my late father. He would be saying ""Hmmm, all the gear and no idea"". But hey we have to start somewhere eh!

Cheers, have a good day

 

[Lons]

Hi Chris

Ok, I presume that you do have all the basic hand tools, a bench doesn't matter though it's probably the first thing I'd make.

DeWalt 733: I bought one of these last year, was s/h but had been used only half a dozen times and I'm happy with it so far, has good capacity and works well however the biggest issue is noise - it's damn loud! Something to consider if you have close neighbours.
I made a wheeled trolley for mine and store it on a low shelf easily lifted on top when in use.

Startrite p/t: I don't know but I think the equivalent is a Robland 310, owned by Startrite and I did have one of those for a number of years. It was excellent, powerful, quiet and far too good for my requirements tbh and better suited to a decent joiner shop. It was too big for my double garage size workshop and though on wheels it was a real pain to wheel out and set up when needed so I sold it. I do however miss it which is why I bought the DW 733.

One of the reasons I didn't have room is that I also have a SIP 01332 table saw and a Startrite bandsaw. I use both of those but if I had to choose then the bandsaw is the most versatile. As mike said, the tablesaw takes a lot of room, mine even more so as I added a folding router table to one end.

I've had smaller workshops than yours and with organisation and wheeled bases it can work well but it will need a lot of thought. It's very easy to let excitement and heart over rule your head. Don't forget storage for tools, timber, materials, glues and finishes and you will certainly require some dust extraction!
cheers
Bob

 

[woodbloke66]

Hi and welcome.

I don't think you've got room for a table saw in a 5m x 2.4m workshop. I suggest you stick to a planer thicknesser (it's not a jointer!!!!..unless you're American), and a bandsaw. That will cover all your ripping and board preparation needs if you don't want to rely on hand-tools for these tasks. Tablesaws consume an awful lot of space, because of the space they need around them in which to work.

Some excellent advice from all but I agree with Mike; you don't need a tablesaw and a good bandsaw will cover all your your essential sawing tasks. The other essential bit of kit is a planer/thicknesser which takes all the 'grunt' out of preparing material.

A decent, heavy bench of some description is a 'must have' as well as a selection of good quality hand tools; surprisingly you don't need many but make sure that whatever you do buy is the very best you can afford. Look at Classic Hand Tools and Workshop Heaven for good quality hand tools.

There are plenty of places to purchase NEW machinery (which is what you're after) but one thing in Axminster's favour is that unlike many, many suppliers, they will deliver your sometimes very heavy machine directly into the workshop, instead of dumping it in the road outside.

Edit: stay well clear of Charnwood equipment, especially the W629! - Rob

 

[Mike Jordan]

It might be a good idea to have a look at combination machines, sometimes called "general joiners"or universal woodworkers. I have never owned such a machine and always preferred individual items, but they may solve the problem of limited space. Perhaps someone who owns such a machine would care to comment.

 

[deema]

If your making furniture for the home that isn’t solid wood, which is I suspect be your first projects, and I wanted to make life easier I wouldn’t buy any machines but consider a track saw and either a biscuit jointer or a Festool domino. Take a look at Peter Millard uTube content for inspiration and what can be achieved in small spaces. You can make very easily furniture made from man made materials with nothing more than a drill, square, straight edge, single plane say no 4 and a panel saw.

The first machine if you want to use solid wood I would buy in your position would be a top quality planner thicknesser to take all the hard work out of getting stock to do joinery with. IMO the best PT for the lowest money is the Sedgwick PT. not only will it hold its value but, you won’t have any issues with it flexing, tables moving, and all the general problems associated with many PT built to a cost.

 

[That would work]

I agree about a band saw being able to cover most things. However, my ws is about the size of yours and I have a lathe,12inch bandsaw, 10inch saw bench, pillar drill, planer thicknesser, bench top morticer, bench grinder and chip extraction (one of those small Axminster ones, its on the floor under my bench). And a bench of course (6 foot). One corner is a tool wall and I use a plenty of magnetic holders around the place.
The PT gets pulled away from the wall when needed. The morticer sits in a corner on the floor
It is quite compact but I like the fact that I can do anything. It needs to be kept tidy and there has to be a place for absolutely everything!
As for material storage I have a shed that I store timber for shortish periods and any other boards are kept in the loft which is a pain in the turnip but a decent environment. It also depends on the size of the stuff you make. I do do a certain amount of turning and mainly smallish stuff. I can easily make full size doors. If I need more space to cut sheets or whatever I have a gazebo on the patio.

 

[MikeG.]

.......The Dewalt DW745 - Is again a bench top saw, this could be mounted flat into a large work bench?
However the Charnwood W629 is a larger machine, more trade spec and with a better cross cut sled and cast iron tables etc.......

This is missing the point a bit. It isn't the saw itself which eats room in a workshop. It's the space around it in which you have to work. For a start, you'll need at least 2.4m of clear space for infeed and the same for outfeed, as it's pretty hard to buy material shorter than that. That means your saw is going to have to stand bang in the middle of your longest wall. You'll need at least a metre of width in which you stand to work the machine. So that's 4.8m x the table width + 1m. That floor area is pretty much half the size of the workshop you are proposing kept clear just to service the one machine. Can you really afford that sort of space? If you think you can, you work in a very unusual way.

 

[That would work]

Forget a cross cut sliding tables! basic ripping is fine which is all I really do (apart from a smallish sled). Its easier, quicker and more accurate than a BS. Also don't combine a saw in a bench! no no no.

 

[Mike Jordan]

I wouldn't suggest that you even consider buying a domino or biscuit machine or anything with a festool label on it. To be a happy hobby woodworker you need to gain skills gradually, preferably starting with simple machines and hand tools.
Spending Megga money on machines that supposedly produce superior work is for much later on if at all.

 

[Fisher1980]

I agree about a band saw being able to cover most things. However, my ws is about the size of yours and I have a lathe,12inch bandsaw, 10inch saw bench, pillar drill, planer thicknesser, bench top morticer, bench grinder and chip extraction (one of those small Axminster ones, its on the floor under my bench). And a bench of course (6 foot). One corner is a tool wall and I use a plenty of magnetic holders around the place.
The PT gets pulled away from the wall when needed. The morticer sits in a corner on the floor
It is quite compact but I like the fact that I can do anything. It needs to be kept tidy and there has to be a place for absolutely everything!
As for material storage I have a shed that I store timber for shortish periods and any other boards are kept in the loft which is a pain in the turnip but a decent environment. It also depends on the size of the stuff you make. I do do a certain amount of turning and mainly smallish stuff. I can easily make full size doors. If I need more space to cut sheets or whatever I have a gazebo on the patio.

Its good to hear that at least somebody else has a shop about the same size that's full of machines/tools.

I would also look to put my machines on roller bases, to make life easier. I also have another garage for tools/machines/wood, or I can build the new shop with loft / rafter access so that long boards can be stored above.

Out of interest which planer/thicknesser have you got.

 

[Fisher1980]

Stay well clear of Charnwood equipment, especially the W629! - Rob

Hi Rob, That's a big quote to make, what's so wrong with Charnwood equipment in general and more so the W629, is this based on personal experience.

Cheers

 

[That would work]

I agree about a band saw being able to cover most things. However, my ws is about the size of yours and I have a lathe,12inch bandsaw, 10inch saw bench, pillar drill, planer thicknesser, bench top morticer, bench grinder and chip extraction (one of those small Axminster ones, its on the floor under my bench). And a bench of course (6 foot). One corner is a tool wall and I use a plenty of magnetic holders around the place.
The PT gets pulled away from the wall when needed. The morticer sits in a corner on the floor
It is quite compact but I like the fact that I can do anything. It needs to be kept tidy and there has to be a place for absolutely everything!
As for material storage I have a shed that I store timber for shortish periods and any other boards are kept in the loft which is a pain in the turnip but a decent environment. It also depends on the size of the stuff you make. I do do a certain amount of turning and mainly smallish stuff. I can easily make full size doors. If I need more space to cut sheets or whatever I have a gazebo on the patio.

Its good to hear that at least somebody else has a shop about the same size that's full of machines/tools.

I would also look to put my machines on roller bases, to make life easier. I also have another garage for tools/machines/wood, or I can build the new shop with loft / rafter access so that long boards can be stored above.

Out of interest which planer/thicknesser have you got.

An Electra Beckum 260, it sits against a wall nicely.

 

[woodbloke66]

Stay well clear of Charnwood equipment, especially the W629! - Rob

Hi Rob, That's a big quote to make, what's so wrong with Charnwood equipment in general and more so the W629, is this based on personal experience.

Cheers

It is; PM me and I'll tell you why - Rob

 

[deema]

.......The Dewalt DW745 - Is again a bench top saw, this could be mounted flat into a large work bench?
However the Charnwood W629 is a larger machine, more trade spec and with a better cross cut sled and cast iron tables etc.......

This is missing the point a bit. It isn't the saw itself which eats room in a workshop. It's the space around it in which you have to work. For a start, you'll need at least 2.4m of clear space for infeed and the same for outfeed, as it's pretty hard to buy material shorter than that. That means your saw is going to have to stand bang in the middle of your longest wall. You'll need at least a metre of width in which you stand to work the machine. So that's 4.8m x the table width + 1m. That floor area is pretty much half the size of the workshop you are proposing kept clear just to service the one machine. Can you really afford that sort of space? If you think you can, you work in a very unusual way.

I can’t fully follow this logic / rationale for a Bandsaw as opposed to a table saw. The stuff will stick out the same distance fore and aft of either machine. You will still need the same space to work for either machine.

Being objective, the Bandsaw typically has a smaller table which makes it more difficult to support the work properly without the use of additional support for anything other than short bits. A Bandsaw is ideal for curved work, making veneers, and is considered my many to be safer to use than a table saw. A table saw will cut in general straighter, for the smaller machines does not have much larger foot print, and with the right jigs produce a lot of joinery. When not is use a table saw makes a great additional bench space.

There are pros and cons for each, and everyone has their own particular slant on which is best.

The most space efficient method which avoids the need to have a gym membership is a couple of collapsible saw horses and a vintage rip saw bought for a couple of pounds with the addition of a lot of sweat you can do anything a mechanical saw can do.