New Saw table fence.

[ecp]

I mentioned in this thread that I was getting a new saw table fence.

The reason for getting a new one was 2 fold.
1. My Scheppach fence would only allow cuts to 350mm wide,
2. My top was warped and I had to fix it. In doing so it made the existing fence un-useable.

I decided to try this fence and it arrived on Saturday.

To fit it to my top, I had to add 2 side lips to the table (made from 25mm ply) onto which to bolt the fence as the Ali top is box section and not deep enough or man enough on its own to support the new fence.

Once I fitted the lips, I simply bolted the fence to the ply, and that was it.

Whist at it, I took the opportunity to fit my router table top between the fence rails behind the saw. ( I added to supports at the end of the fence rails as extra support to carry the weight).

Here are the results

This is the view from the front


Side


and Back



Things to notice:
- The sides are still off the saw table - will be refitted on completion of testing
- There is a gap between the saw top and the router table top - will be filled when I make a cabinet for the underside to store the router bits etc.
- The scale has not yet been added to the fence - will do that once I have completed all test.
- The fence itself is only 35 inches, so does not reach the back rail as my top is wider. This can be easily remedied by adding an extension to the fence.
- The Incra fence on the router top is removable - 2 thumb screws

My impressions:

The complete unit is very substantially made. The fence is aluminium box and has t-slots in it, the back rail is also ali (angle), and the front fence is iron.

The fence slides very smoothly in the rail, and when the knob is tightened (1/2 turn) it locks the fence in place very rigidly, and is always (so far) square to the blade (assuming it was adjusted correctly in the setup). This is despite the fact that the fence does not ride on the back rail yet. However the purpose of the back rail seems only to be for supporting the back end of the fence off the table to allow smooth travel as the locating piece is nylon and does not clamp to the back fence.

So far I am most pleased with the results, particularly as it allows me to cut up to 4ft with no problem, and the price of a Scheppach fence extension (maximum 800mm) was almost double the cost of the new fence.

 

[Scrit]

The most obvious comment I'll make is that it's yet another straight through rip fence supplied without neither a low height nor a short position rip fence plate for handling proper ripping work safely. When will American manufacturers ever learn the basics of safe wood machining? :roll:

Scrit

 

[Mike.C]

Nice one ecp, it looks as if you have bought yourself a excellent piece of kit there. One thing, what model Incra is that, didn't it come with a fence?

Good luck with your new toy. Now where are the pictures of your new dust extractor system? :wink: :lol:

Cheers

Mike

 

[Mike.C]

Scrit,

The most obvious comment I'll make is that it's yet another straight through rip fence supplied without neither a low height nor a short position rip fence plate for handling proper ripping work safely. When will American manufacturers ever learn the basics of safe wood machining?

I agree, but it should be easy enough to make a add on short fence to overcome that problem, after all the fence has a slot that this could be attached too.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Scrit]

I agree, but it should be easy enough to make a add on short fence to overcome that problem, after all the fence has a slot that this could be attached too.

Mike

But why should it be necessary? With respect my objection is that many people who purchase fences such as these are simply unaware of the dynamics of table saw kickbacks. There is an implied understanding that the manufacturer has taken reasonable steps to ensure a safe product, however in the case of the American aftermarket fences this is patently not so. The cost of incorporating a 2-position sliding rip fence plate (with a low position to allow the use of the rip fence for narrow strip ripping without the need for the crown guard to be removed or the blade set high) would potentuially be relatively low, but the American manufacturers have to date ignored the obvious safety shorcomings of their products with the obvious exception of the Delta Unifence. Surely I'm not alone in thinking that any aftermarket device should incorporate the same basic safety devices that we see on new Euro saws within the asking price?

Scrit

 

[Mike.C]

Scrit,


Mike

But why should it be necessary? With respect my objection is that many people who purchase fences such as these are simply unaware of the dynamics of table saw kickbacks. There is an implied understanding that the manufacturer has taken reasonable steps to ensure a safe product, however in the case of the American aftermarket fences this is patently not so. The cost of incorporating a 2-position sliding rip fence plate (with a low position to allow the use of the rip fence for narrow strip ripping without the need for the crown guard to be removed or the blade set high) would potentuially be relatively low, but the American manufacturers have to date ignored the obvious safety shorcomings of their products with the obvious exception of the Delta Unifence. Surely I'm not alone in thinking that any aftermarket device should incorporate the same basic safety devices that we see on new Euro saws within the asking price?

Scrit

No Scrit you are 101% correct. I agree that he should not have to add a piece to it just to make it safe to use, when it should be manufactured like that in the first place.
All I was saying was that he can overcome the problem, but you are right he should not have too.

I also agree that many buyers may think that because they have purchased it from a major company it must be safe to use.

The thing is, the old fence that comes with his Scheppach 4010 is a 2 position fence like the one you are talking about (or the one on my old 2500 was), but sadly when his table was repaired it meant that he could no longer use that fence.

Cheers

Mike

 

[ecp]

supplied without neither a low height nor a short position rip fence plate

There is such a unit available I believe - but as this is new to the UK, they don't have everything here yet. And I was aware of this shortcoming when I bought it.

The manufacturer in the States is currently updating their web site, so it will be interesting to see what else they introduce in due course.

However, in the meantime I see no problem with making my own short fence and fitting it to the T-tracks when needed.

I think it is a well made fence for the money (particularly when I look at some of the other products currently on the market which are either grossly overpriced or poorly made) and so far am pleased with it.

Having said all of that, I am now seriously re-thinking my whole cutting facility and may well change it all in due course anyway.

many people who purchase fences such as these are simply unaware of the dynamics of table saw kickbacks

It is not just kickbacks that people are unaware of.
The industry is full of products being sold that are potentially dangerous with no warnings offered by manufacturers.
I believe (from a contact involved in health and safety) that a lot of the products manufactured or sold in Europe have certificates as a result of self certification. As long as that is the case then 'buyer beware'. - but that's a different topic.

One thing, what model Incra is that,

It's an original router table fence (about 5 years old) and I can't remember the model number, but the current updated version of it is this one
It did come with a fence, but it isn't really usable on a saw as it's too narrow and not rigid enough.

The Incra Saw fence is very expensive, and so far I have not really needed the micro-adjustment which is the major additional benefit it offers.
Apart from that, I don't think they are available in the UK.

Now where are the pictures of your new dust extractor system?

Here. :wink:

 

[Roy Clarke]

......... the American manufacturers have to date ignored the obvious safety shorcomings of their products with the obvious exception of the Delta Unifence. .........

I have tried looking up the Delta Unifence, but I can't see how it would offer any more than the other aftermarket fences. Can you point me in the right direction?

 

[Mike.C]

Roy, I think what Scrit is talking about is a small add on piece which attaches to the Delta Unifence. I remember seeing something like that on the New Yankee Workshop. Of course Norm could have added this himself and Scrit is talking about something else.

Cheers

Mike

 

[edwood bear]

The comments from scrit are a little unjustified. the fence in question has T tracks built into the fence extrusion which take standard M8 square nuts so a shorter sub fence can be fitted easily. I have used this fence as a profesional joiner and never ever had kick back of any kind. The problem with Euro fences is that the vast majority are dangerous as they very rarely cut sraight, as Scrit probably knows this is a major cause of kick back and I would not be in business if the Euro fences worked. I am the supplier of these fences but as a profesional woodworker I would never supply something I recognise as dangerous. I personaly feel the fences add safety. My website is www.mulecab.co.uk .
Steven Peters

 

[Mike.C]

Roy this is the fence I was talking about, obviously this is the Biesemeyer type, but Delta also do one.

Don't Delta own Biesemeyer anyway?

http://www.mikestools.com/B78-939-Biese ... Fence.aspx

Cheers

Mike

 

[Roy Clarke]

edwood bear, your site shows a straight through, full length fence. Is this the configuration you expect it to be used in?

 

[edwood bear]

You can use it as a staight through fence or you can add a sarificial shorter sub base.

 

[Roy Clarke]

But I thought the straight through fence presented a potential hazard.

 

[edwood bear]

Roy
I have never had a problem either way but tell people to put a sacrificial face on anyway. I am obviously not going to please everybody but I have had no complaints about the fence.
Steven Peters

 

[Roy Clarke]

It's not so much a matter of complaints about the fence, but in having a tool that provides a solution to the potential hazards of table saw use.

Once a piece of wood is cut, ie the wood is just beyond the front teeth of the blade. there is no practical benefit in having it restricted by a fence, or have I got it wrong?

 

[Scrit]

Roy, I think what Scrit is talking about is a small add on piece which attaches to the Delta Unifence. I remember seeing something like that on the New Yankee Workshop. Of course Norm could have added this himself and Scrit is talking about something else.

Hi Mike

The Delta Unifence features a sliding 2-height blade allowing its' use as a long through fence, a short rip fence and as a low fence (allowing narrow strips to be cut from thin materials without interfering with the effectiveness of the crown guard). There is an interesting comparison of a number of aftermarket fences by a American Hammer owner Phil Bumbalough here which covers the Accufence/Modulus, Jointech/Incra, Delta Unifence, Vega, Biesmeyer and Excalibur fences which anyone considering an aftermarket fence might find useful, particularly the "Ideal Rip Fence Attributes" table at the end of the article.

Of course the ideal situation is not to have an add on at all - it is to have a fence plate which slides forwards and rearwards relative the blade and which can be removed from the rip fence body, turned through 90 degrees and returned to provide a low fence which will permit the crown guard to be used at all times. This is the type of system found on the Unifence and which has been adopted almost universally by European saw manufacturers since the 1970s. If you do a lot of cutting of thin narrow material (such as plywoods, MDF, etc) this is the best approach in terms of safety IMHO

Oh, and yes, Delta do own Biesmeyer these days.

Once a piece of wood is cut, ie the wood is just beyond the front teeth of the blade. there is no practical benefit in having it restricted by a fence, or have I got it wrong?

No, you have it exactly right!

The comments from Scrit are a little unjustified. the fence in question has T tracks built into the fence extrusion which take standard M8 square nuts so a shorter sub fence can be fitted easily.

My comments are perfectly justified and well you know it! As a self-admitted professional woodworker I'm surprised that your site can illustrate a straight through rip fence configuration on a saw which has neither a crown guard nor a run-off table, both of which you should be well aware of the need for as a professional woodworker. That shows scant regard for safety, I'd say

The problem with Euro fences is that the vast majority are dangerous as they very rarely cut straight, as Scrit probably knows this is a major cause of kick back and I would not be in business if the Euro fences worked

I beg to differ most strongly. As a professional woodworker I for one know exactly how kickback occurs. One source of kickback is where tension released from timbers by ripping causes the timber to be trapped or pinched between the long through rip fence and the blade. This is precisely what your fence allows. I'm somewhat at a loss to understand how or why you think the type of rip fence fitted to say a Hammer is going to be more dangerous and I await your response with interest.

I personally feel the fences add safety

I would not doubt that the Biesmeyer-type fence is probably more accurate and easier to adjust than many rip fences supplied with entry-level saws, however the need for a sliding, 2-level fence plate still persists on grounds of safety, so I feel your statements are to say the least inaccurate and potentially born of commercial expediency

Scrit

 

[edwood bear]

Roy
The fence is designed as a straight through fence as the end of the fence runs on a rail so that it dosen't flop around and is nice and smooth as you adjust the position. I do not think it is difficult to add a piece of ply or mdf to make a shorter fence. The fences on most Euro cheap to medium priced saws don't even cut straight and how dangerous is that?
Regards
Steve

 

[Roy Clarke]

Roy
The fence is designed as a straight through fence as the end of the fence runs on a rail so that it dosen't flop around and is nice and smooth as you adjust the position. I do not think it is difficult to add a piece of ply or mdf to make a shorter fence. The fences on most Euro cheap to medium priced saws don't even cut straight and how dangerous is that?
Regards
Steve

If the cheap fences cause the saw to not cut straight, I agree that is a situation which needs an adjustment. If a fence is supplied to add to a saw table, there seems little point in having it if just offers an alternative hazard. Though it may be easy for the user to add a sub fence, I would have thought it would have been better to show this configuration on your web pages, rather than give the impression that a straight through fence is ok.

 

[Mike.C]

Hi Scrit, thanks for clearing that up, its very much appreciated.

Cheers

Mike