New saw advice

[Bacms]

Hi everyone,

I embarked on the woodworking journey a while back with your help. I have mainly been building plywood cabinets and so far my track saw and router have been more than enough for the stuff I was building. However, I am now upgrading for simple plywood boxes to building frames and joinery work (previously done all my joinery using pocket screws). I am finding the track saw a bit too much of a pain to work as doing repeat cuts of the same length takes quite a long setup time and it is really unpractical especially for beveled cuts.
With that in mind, I am now considering either a mitre saw or a table saw for this task. I work in a garage of a rented house so saying space is limited is an understatement. Moreover, good dust collection is a must as again the small space makes clutter a huge problem.
Which one of the two types of saw would you recommend for my purpose and if you could please list a few models it would be even better. Have around £500 for this.

 

[Bacms]

Anyone?

 

[custard]

A £500 mitre saw will give far cleaner and more reliably accurate cross cuts than a £500 table saw. It's also a lot more compact in a small space, it can be folded up and stored on a shelf when not in use.

But you can't rip with a mitre saw, nor can it deal with with wide panels, so a table saw is more versatile.

The other option is to make yourself a simple shooting board and trim the ends of your rails and stiles that way, but shooting boards are a notorious woodworking rabbit hole, don't go down unless you're prepared to spend quite some time there!

 

[LancsRick]

Your other option if you do a lot of cross cuts and only the occasional rip would be a radial arm saw. You can then rip material with either your track saw or the RAS, and they are extremely accurate for cross cuts.

 

[Geoff_S]

That's interesting because I started with a table saw, which I have still got, but for cutting panels I now use a plunge saw. However, I do use both. One of the issues I have with my table saw is ripping long lengths of timber on the in-feed & out-feed (I think those are the terms). And especially with sheets I now only use the plunge saw. Trying to balance a 2.4 metre sheet on a table saw is a challenge (it's a Dewalt DW7491) and needing 3 metres either side!

So in my somewhat limited experience, get a table saw but hang onto your track saw, and look at a plunge saw.

Famous quote from my wife when the bandsaw was delivered ... "I didn't know there were so many ways to cut a piece of wood"

 

[Bacms]

A £500 mitre saw will give far cleaner and more reliably accurate crosscuts than a £500 table saw. It's also a lot more compact in a small space, it can be folded up and stored on a shelf when not in use.

But you can't rip with a mitre saw, nor can it deal with wide panels, so a table saw is more versatile.

You basically list the reasons I was considering a mitre saw instead of a table saw. Smaller, cleaner and easy to store away when not in use. But the more I read about the more it seems that almost everyone recommends one as a tool not really suitable for joinery which is why I was considering the table saw option. What kind of budget should I be looking for a reasonable table saw? I was looking at either the Axminster TS-200-2 or the bosch GTS 10 XC but from your message, it seems they will simply not be more accurate than a mitre saw?

The other option is to make yourself a simple shooting board and trim the ends of your rails and stiles that way, but shooting boards are a notorious woodworking rabbit hole, don't go down unless you're prepared to spend quite some time there!

I will pretend I know what you are talking about and watch some youtube videos about it

 

[Bacms]

Your other option if you do a lot of cross cuts and only the occasional rip would be a radial arm saw. You can then rip material with either your track saw or the RAS, and they are extremely accurate for cross cuts.

Thank you for your suggestion, this type of saw was completely outside my radar so will have a look at them

 

[Bacms]

That's interesting because I started with a table saw, which I have still got, but for cutting panels I now use a plunge saw. However, I do use both. One of the issues I have with my table saw is ripping long lengths of timber on the in-feed & out-feed (I think those are the terms). And especially with sheets I now only use the plunge saw. Trying to balance a 2.4 metre sheet on a table saw is a challenge (it's a Dewalt DW7491) and needing 3 metres either side!

So in my somewhat limited experience, get a table saw but hang onto your track saw, and look at a plunge saw.

Famous quote from my wife when the bandsaw was delivered ... "I didn't know there were so many ways to cut a piece of wood"

My track saw is a plunge saw sorry if that was not clear. I do like it for cutting panels and have no plans to get rid of it.

 

[Geoff_S]

If you have a lack of space then I think that a radial saw is going to be an issue and also many pounds in cash.

A mitre saw is going to limit you to essentially cutting across the grain, but that's where I started with an old Elu machine, now Dewalt DWS777. As I recall, the width of cut was about 10".

In terms of your bevel cuts, the mitre saw is fine for a width of 10", but I cannot for the life of me remember whether the DWS777 (Elu) was a compound mitre saw, ie it cuts bevels in the end of the piece as well as mitring across the piece. Anyway, about £300'ish new.

If you need to do long bevel cuts, then a table saw may be your only option, although I have done longish pieces on a bandsaw.

 

[LancsRick]

Just to challenge that a bit Geoff, a good condition Dewalt 1251 can be had for around £200, and I wouldn't have said it takes any more space than a portable table saw.

 

[Geoff_S]

Just to challenge that a bit Geoff, a good condition Dewalt 1251 can be had for around £200, and I wouldn't have said it takes any more space than a portable table saw.

Sorry, I was assuming new

And you’re right about the table saw size but my head was thinking mitre saw (homer)

 

[MikeJhn]

I recently took delivery of this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lumberjack-1 ... rmvSB=true and its proved itself to be very good for mitre cuts, not as good as my Mikita, but very economical and I am very pleased with it.

Mike

 

[Bacms]

If you have a lack of space then I think that a radial saw is going to be an issue and also many pounds in cash.

A mitre saw is going to limit you to essentially cutting across the grain, but that's where I started with an old Elu machine, now Dewalt DWS777. As I recall, the width of cut was about 10".

In terms of your bevel cuts, the mitre saw is fine for a width of 10", but I cannot for the life of me remember whether the DWS777 (Elu) was a compound mitre saw, ie it cuts bevels in the end of the piece as well as mitring across the piece. Anyway, about £300'ish new.

If you need to do long bevel cuts, then a table saw may be your only option, although I have done longish pieces on a bandsaw.

It seems like my previous reply didn't post. I know I am limited to cross cuts but I can do rip cuts with my plunge/track saw which is still not as precise as a table saw due to variations between measurements but does the job.
I was actually considering the Metabo KGS 254 which is only single bevel but seems to get good reviews on these forums. However, I do have a bigger budget so if the accuracy improves with the money I spend I can easily go for something a bit better

 

[MikeJhn]

Its only the amount of adjustment available with any cross cut saw that gives you the accuracy, some stay in adjustment better than others, but so far the LumberJack mitre saw I posted the link to above has not needed any further adjustment since setting it up, don't get me wrong its a cheap saw and its got some cheap plastic parts, but its as accurate as I need for mitring skirtings on out of true walls, lots of silly angles needed, which is why I bought it as it has a double bevel facility.

Mike

 

[Bacms]

Its only the amount of adjustment available with any cross cut saw that gives you the accuracy, some stay in adjustment better than others, but so far the LumberJack mitre saw I posted the link to above has not needed any further adjustment since setting it up, don't get me wrong its a cheap saw and its got some cheap plastic parts, but its as accurate as I need for mitring skirtings on out of true walls, lots of silly angles needed, which is why I bought it as it has a double bevel facility.

Mike

Wouldn't the play in the sliding action contribute more to the accuracy? I know I can adjust the angles of cut but there is nothing I can do about the play from side to side while cutting

 

[MikeJhn]

Any play in the rails is a no no as well, but the majority of cross cut saws are pretty good in this respect.

Mike

 

[finish_that]

Based on your space and dust requirements I would suggest looking at an MFT or ukj table setup for your track saw , with the dogs/rails/stops and clamps you will be able to do do
lots of accurate work which would take just as much or even more setup with a table or radial arm saw both of which will compromise on space and dust ., they are more or less in budget too, plus there are options to buy a top and build your own.

 

[Bacms]

Based on your space and dust requirements I would suggest looking at an MFT or ukj table setup for your track saw , with the dogs/rails/stops and clamps you will be able to do do
lots of accurate work which would take just as much or even more setup with a table or radial arm saw both of which will compromise on space and dust ., they are more or less in budget too, plus there are options to buy a top and build your own.

The Festool MFT table with its table slide definitely fits a lot of my requirements. But can you purchase the track slide separately at all?
The UJK system, in my opinion, does not really help, I mean the table is great and the ability to do your own even better. But for cut repeatability, you really need a system that allows you to adjust the height of the track saw which unfortunately does not seem to exist on that system. And given the price of the Festool wouldn't a table saw be a better option anyway?

 

[Sideways]

I sounds like you started out right with a tracksaw for you ply box work. Tracksaw is great but not very well suited to ripping narrow stock to width.
Moving on to solid timber frame construction you need to be able to accurately dimension the frame components.
I'd argue that the two most useful machines are a planer thicknesser and a small tablesaw. You don't need a big TS as your tracksaw is better for cutting down sheet goods.
Planer makes it easier for us amateurs to get an accurate face and edge on the stock
Thicknesser does what it says
TS will accurately rip stock to width for finishing by hand or going back in the thicknesser
TS will do a decent job of crosscutting pieces as long as they aren't too long. Mitre saw will be better at this with no length limits but it can't rip

I'd point you at makes like Scheppach, and at an 8" tablesaw with an extension table. You can build a sled to help with crosscutting and cutting joints.

 

[custard]

The Festool MFT table with its table slide definitely fits a lot of my requirements.

Here's my table saw,

And here's my MFT set up,

The table saw has a scoring blade which can be useful for laminate and veneer surfaces, and it has a bigger capacity and more convenient end stops. But for most practical purposes I can't see any difference between them in the accuracy or quality of cross cuts.

However, when it comes to ripping the table saw wins hands down, and the quality of cut from a decent mitre saw is probably superior to both of them, chiefly by virtue of the tooth geometry which is unique to that tool and would be dangerous on other saws.

You can go round and round this issue until the cows come home, and of course differences in what you make will be decisive. But as a general rule for smaller workshops, where space is the critical constraint, I'm not convinced that a budget table saw is always the best use of funds. If you work solid timber a bandsaw with it's small footprint can often be the best ripping solution, for breaking down large sheet goods a track saw has a lot going for it, an MFT table is supremely versatile not only for cross cutting but also doubles as a precision assembly table, and a decent mitre saw is very compact and delivers virtually polished end grain cuts.

Regarding a separate track for the MFT, I think they are sold individually, but one call to a dealer like FXX Tools will resolve that.

Good luck!