New member - moving US>UK

[ardyne]

I have been woodworking for a few decades. Due to personal reasons, my family plans to move to UK in 2024-2025 (I am from UK).

I acquired a number of Jet tools - mostly 20 years ago. I used them with care and they are in good shape. I am very happy with them. Since I am committed to taking a container for this move, I am tempted to bring them. I am familiar with a number of issues here. Tool prices much higher in UK than US. Selling tools in US and buying in UK big hassle and expense (I am not in a big city so selling into a small market and transport big hassle / expense). Potential for being incompatible with current safety rules. Import rules/expense? - but old tools and strictly personal use. I have looked into remotoring. Jet used to provide a useful parts website but it now makes no sense to me and I am unsure they would sell 240V 50 Hz motors to me for my purpose. I only use one power tool at a time - plus dust collector sometimes. Consequently, I am thinking about remotoring the collector and getting a power converter "powerxchanger" (about $1500) to handle the rest of the tools. The price of motors seems to vary from about $200 to $1000 depending on quality etc so going with a converter appears logical vs. remotoring everything. I may offload some tools but I possess approx - table saw, bandsaw, jointer, drill press and lathe. I have a few sanders too - all with synchronous 60Hz motors. I also understand that the value, if I tried to sell these tools later in the UK, may be low.
Welcome thoughts - especially from anyone having dealt with a similar issue or whether they investigated it and came to different solution.

 

[Inspector]

Keep in mind if you swap out a 60Hz motor for a 50Hz motor in your dust collector you'll get a 20% drop in airflow. I believe you can get transformers that step up the 50Hz current to 60Hz so you wouldn't need to change anything on your machines. Other forum members are better able to answer.

Pete

Forgot to welcome you to the forum. Welcome.

 

[ardyne]

Thanks. That reduction will need to be considered. My thinking about remotoring (or not) the collector is that it draws close to maximum current already so adding any additional major machine being used (table saw or bandsaw) would lead to having to DOUBLE converter capacity for the relatively few times that two major loads are used. I can also say categorically that no more than one machine and one collector will be on at the same time - but that when both are on, I believe I am currently drawing close to 15A from two separate 110V circuits currently.
Additionally, my current air flow situation is pretty poor so 20% loss compared with theoretical might be manageable - i.e. if I replace current flexible tubing with cleaner smooth wall rigid piping of an optimal size. I see that various dust collector options are available in UK - e.g. Axminster. If remotoring is a major hassle, it might be one of those things I try to sell. I am curious about whether there is a preferred brand or tool source in the UK. Jet worked well for me thus far. Tend to think Taiwanese better than some alternatives - though in the 20 years since I bought these machines, many things changed.

 

[Inspector]

The UK doesn't have any 110V so you would have to have a transformer to change the 220V to 110V unless the motors on your machines are dual voltage motors.

Pete

 

[Cabinetman]

I’m sure you will have checked, but from me looking in America to set up a workshop I’m not convinced about things being cheaper there. Obviously European equipment is a lot more over there. But even Grizzly seems expensive to me.
Welcome and I hope you enjoy your woodworking in the UK, which part are you moving to? People may be able to recommend locally.
Ian

 

[Sideways]

Many ac motors quote currents and speeds at both 50hz and 60hz on their rating plates. So your motors will potentially run ok, just 20% slow.
You will need one or two big transformers to reduce 240v down to 110v for the Jet machines. Look for big secondhand site transformers. 10kva big enough ?
The going rate on ebay seems to be about £160 plus maybe £70 to ship it.

I might be tempted to leave the dust collector behind. Just bring your decent machines. They will be hard to sell in the UK when you tire of them, but you are going to take a hit selling and buying again so maybe all the same in the long run.

 

[ardyne]

Sideways - To be clear, this 50 Hz vs 60 Hz can be a big deal - unless, like you say, they quote both. Not the case for 60 Hz specific synchronous motors - typically the 0.5 HP and up motors on larger machines. The motors I have looked at all quote specific 60 Hz. However, it is quite likely that motors built specifically for the 50 Hz market (most of the world) are in fact 60 Hz safe - but not vice versa. The 60 Hz motors do not run just slower at 50 Hz. They run hotter. This isn't one of those instances of manufacturers trying to sell two different versions - different label / same machine. The electrical impedance at 50 Hz is lower so the current is higher. Slower rotations and higher currents equate to more heat. Strongly discouraged. You could try lowering the voltage to compensate but at that point I think it is better to just do it right.
I read somewhere that manufacturers decided that the cost savings of making 60 Hz specific motors for North American market were sufficient to not bother trying to sell a truly universal motor in North America. Somehow, although some 50 Hz motors can often be used in 60 Hz settings, they still decided that 60 Hz specific either made technical sense or financial sense - for them. Additionally, these motors obviously run at different speeds depending on the frequency so a true 60 Hz motor may have different winding design depending on the necessity to hit a specific RPM goal.
Non synchronous motors - of the type used in many handheld tools (drills, routers, etc) - probably much less applicable. I am tempted to live with a lower cost, but correct power rated, voltage converter for those tools.
To add to the confusion, some of my motors do have a 230V option. Most US houses actually have a limited amount of positive and negative 110/115 V wiring (and two phases / bus bars on a circuit breaker panel). Higher power appliances (cookers, water heaters and clothes driers) use two phases of 110/115 (180 degrees), with respect to neutral, to get 230 V. However, thinking you can plug one of these in to European 240V would be a big mistake (at least it isn't an experiment I am contemplating).

 

[DeBangis]

Welcome to UKWorkshop.

 

[Sideways]

@ardyne
It's your machinery and it's great that you are researching it thoroughly.

If you choose to keep your machines but replace the motors to get a 50 Hz and 240V specification, be aware that a decent/budget IEC 2.2kW 4pole motor costs about £230 these days. Motor prices have almost doubled in the last few years. You'll also want to swap the control gear as the switches may not be specified for 240v and need to tweak motor mounts, pulleys etc as the imperial dimensions of NEMA motors that may be fitted to your machines are different from motors made to conform to IEC metric standards.

Be aware that Europe harmonised the electricity standard so everything nowadays is made to cope with the spec 230V +10% -6%. Depending where you are, the voltage at the wall may be 220V or as much as 253V. NEMA motors have a standard voltage tolerance of /-10% so actually even wider in % terms.

The only foolproof way is to sell and replace when you arrive.

 

[TimV]

My $0.02
Anything with a series-wound motor - you're probably fine with a transformer
For an induction motor which I think is mostly what you have, the most reliable way of getting them to work well is probably to use some sort of inverter drive (VFD set to 60Hz or similar), ideally with a three-phase supply (elsewhere on the forum people have mentioned it's easier to get them installed today than it used to). The upsides are that your machines would think they were back at home in the US and work perfectly, plus you'd get more motor protection and a controlled start with less inrush current (which strains not only the wiring but also the motor). The downside is that you need one per motor, so they're expensive.
Also, you used to be able to get motor-generator sets, which do the same thing, but are more accommodating (so you'd only need one, but it would be heavy and need space)

Good luck with the move

 

[ardyne]

Thanks for all the useful advice. Plenty to think about. The landscape is certainly changing in terms of options. There are probably few people choosing to move their machinery. I would not if not for a lot of other stuff - including my own wooden furniture etc. I am not excited about selling for pittance.

 

[Spectric]

You have my sympathy, why anyone would move to the UK when so many are bailing out unless it will be just a temporary relocation.

Tool prices much higher in UK than US.

I wish they were, but there is a much bigger difference in cost probably because the UK market is so small and an awful lot of poor quality asian imports.

The UK doesn't have any 110V so you would have to have a transformer to change the 220V to 110V unless the motors on your machines are dual voltage motors.

But we do have 110 volt site transformers that can deliver 32 amps but the secondary is centre grounded. You will still have the frequency issue in that we are 50Hz and your motors will run slower.

I believe you can get transformers that step up the 50Hz current to 60Hz so you wouldn't need to change anything on your machines.

A transformer is really a simple ratio where volts x current in will equal volts x current out but at the same frequency. This means a step up transformer will raise the voltage but proportionally reduce the current and vica versa .

If I was you I would make a list of all your machines, make, model and motor power then post the list here and you will get feedback on a similar uk spec machine and cost, Jet tends to be a good brand so might not be so easy.

By the way, welcome to the UKW and let us know your location in the UK as it might help when you are buying, selling or asking for help if we know if you are within a certain distance.

 

[Inspector]

You have my sympathy, why anyone would move to the UK when so many are bailing out unless it will be just a temporary relocation.

Off the top of my head you, like us, have universal health care where Americans are on a private profit system. Hopefully not the main reason.

One of the things the OP will have to calculate is the cost of shipping the weight and volume of these tools and possible storage if a home isn't ready when they arrive. Verses the cost of selling the old tools and buying new. Never easy when there might be some sentimental attachment to some.

Pete

 

[recipio]

One of the things the OP will have to calculate is the cost of shipping the weight and volume of these tools and possible storage if a home isn't ready when they arrive. Verses the cost of selling the old tools and buying new. Never easy when there might be some sentimental attachment to some.

Pete

Yes indeed and don't forget that you will probably have to pay VAT and import duties on secondhand goods brought into the UK. Personally I would sell up in the US and start again in the UK. Sometimes you have to take a hit in life .

 

[Jameshow]

Yes indeed and don't forget that you will probably have to pay VAT and import duties on secondhand goods brought into the UK. Personally I would sell up in the US and start again in the UK. Sometimes you have to take a hit in life .

If you sell and buy second hand I doubt the differences will be great.

A decent older s/h table saw night cost £500? Same in USA???

 

[Cabinetman]

@Jameshow
Hi James, just had a look, you could get a Jet for that but something a bit older and heavier would be about a thousand, it’s a different set up to here as I’m finding to my cost, there seems to be a lot of Far Eastern low end stuff and then there’s not a great deal in the semi professional level compared to here. Of course good European stuff like SCM is available but it’s about 25% more expensive than the UK, plus delivery is $1500 ! Yes that’s what I thought!
Ian

 

[okeydokey]

I agree with Sideways 06.49 comments.
Also IMO the value of 110v American machines as described has a very low sale (if indeed you can find a buyer) value in the uk.
So I would sell and start again

 

[Jester129]

Anyone on here emigrating to the US? Handy to do a straight swap if they are?

 

[rkchapman]

I moved from the US with a bunch of power tools - a while ago now but some of the following may be relevant:

1. A few tools were trivial to convert to 240v - just flip a switch or internal wiring. My drill press, dust extractor and lathe are still going strong. A Harbor Freight Bandsaw was also trivial to convert but I have since replaced it for a bigger model.

2. Some other tools I kept using for a while using 110v site transformers, but have since replaced. Ryobi table saw and planer thicknesser are the ones I remember. I didn't have a lot of hand-held 110v tools but those I had I have replaced, as the transformer was too much of a pain.

3. Some tools are still in use and working fine with 110v site transformers - tormek, drum sander, bench grinder, air filter, belt sander, chop saw. For "semi-portable" machines the need for a transformer is a bit of a pain, but for permanently-located ones it really does not make any difference.

I have not noticed any ill effect from the 50hz/60hz difference. If I was doing the same again, and had room in the shipping container, I would definitely bring all my tools.

 

[Terrytpot]

Being tight fisted , and not wanting to spend £2-300 on a router, I picked up my Bosch router on a trip to the US along with a suitable transformer for £150 , Both still work fine.