New Laws vs Mail Order Tools

[t8hants]

If the weapon of choice isn't readily available, but of course to the crim' it will be you simply change weapon.
A ban is the politicians method of choice, it sounds effective and proactive, affects thousands of law abiding citizens, has little or no effect on criminal activity and when it proves to be ineffective isn't the fault of the politico's, but those naughty crim's who won't behave.

It is also considerably cheaper than try to sort out the sociological problems that mean teenagers and younger are willing to stab each other in the first place. It isn't the availability of knives that have caused the 77 homicides, but the willingness of the perpetrators to commit the act.

Sadly I have no faith in the words of assurance given and will wait for them to make a complete hash of things.

 

[RogerP]

If the weapon of choice isn't readily available, but of course to the crim' it will be you simply change weapon.
A ban is the politicians method of choice, it sounds effective and proactive, affects thousands of law abiding citizens, has little or no effect on criminal activity and when it proves to be ineffective isn't the fault of the politico's, but those naughty crim's who won't behave.

It is also considerably cheaper than try to sort out the sociological problems that mean teenagers and younger are willing to stab each other in the first place. It isn't the availability of knives that have caused the 77 homicides, but the willingness of the perpetrators to commit the act.

Sadly I have no faith in the words of assurance given and will wait for them to make a complete hash of things.

I expect most of the stabbings were booze fueled.

 

[thetyreman]

how much do you want a bet that banning it outright would actually increase knife crime?

 

[Andy K]

Here is the text from a well known mail order supplier of quality knives (and may other lovely things) that I received recently. There will be ways around this badly written law even if it is enacted without change.

The Offensive Weapons Bill 2018
We’re still here!

On 20th June 2018, the Government published its Offensive Weapons Bill – the first step to creating a new Act. The provisions set out in the Bill will become law when the Act is passed. That hasn’t happened, yet, but it will.

The headlines of the Bill are set out on this page.

The Bill is set for its second reading in the Commons on the afternoon of Wednesday 27th June.

Significantly, for (Traders name removed), this Bill, when implemented, will affect the way that we work and trade. It will affect the way that you buy knives. One of the provisions in the Bill is that we will no longer be able to deliver bladed items to residential addresses. This means no more home delivery for knives and bladed tools. We appreciate that this is a big deal – it’s fundamentally the biggest change in the way that we work during the 22 years that we’ve been in business.

This is not the end of the road for us. Your non-knife parcels will be delivered to your home as before, and we have a plan in place to be able to deliver your knife orders to your local collection point (details to follow). Of course it’s not as useful as having your parcels delivered to your front door, but it’ll save you waiting in for deliveries. In most cases, we’ll be able to offer next working day delivery on those orders.

During the stages of this consultation prior to publication of the Bill, we’ve had very many fruitful conversations with a great many of you. We thank all of you who’ve contributed, both in below-the-line comments on our blog and FB feed, and by engaging with their MPs. We’re heartened that some of your comments to the consultation seem to have been listened to. Of course there are very many others which appear to have been ignored. We still have time to lobby our MPs until the law is enacted.

One of our suppliers has set up a petition to challenge the updated law. Here’s the link to the petition to Remove article 15 of the Offensive Weapons Bill.

With thanks for your custom over the past 22 years, and looking forward to the future together.

 

[loftyhermes]

I emailed my MP (Ben Bradley) on Friday afternoon (2.15pm) and was surprised to receive a reply by letter in Saturday mornings post, sent by second class post.

 

[aesmith]

Response from my MP ..

Dear Tony

Thank you for contacting me about the Offensive Weapons Bill.

I firmly believe that the Government has a duty to safeguard the public and to take action to break the deadly cycle of violence that devastates the lives of individuals, families and communities.

The Home Secretary highlighted during the Second Reading debate of the Bill the defences to the ban which include sporting or professional purposes.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact me.

Regards

Colin

 

[aesmith]

Ah yes, it doesn't apply to delivery to business adresses, so trade are OK, hobbyists and DIYers on the other hand might still have a problem. Of course, government don't care a lot about hobbyists and DIYers - people doing something for themselves doesn't create employment or bring in tax revenue. When I'm in my most cynical mood I wonder if that is not a significant part of what building regs are about.

That's not strictly correct by my reading of the draft. There's an absolute prohibition on delivery to residential addresses ..

15 (2)The seller commits an offence if, for the purposes of supplying the bladed product to the buyer, the seller delivers the bladed product, or arranges for its delivery, to residential premises.

As I read it, delivery to business addresses is permitted, but only by a courier who carries out age verification before handing the object over, ie it is permitted only if a number of conditions are complied with, two of which are ..

(5) Condition B is that when the package containing the article was dispatched by the seller, it was clearly marked to indicate—
(a) that it contained an article with a blade or which was sharply pointed (as the case may be), and
(b) that, when finally delivered, it should only be delivered into the hands of a person aged 18 or over.
(6) Condition C is that the seller took all reasonable precautions and exercised all due diligence to ensure that, when finally delivered, the package would be delivered into the hands of a person aged 18 or over.

I don't know how many, if any, couriers operate a service where they carry out age verification at point of delivery.

 

[rafezetter]

I think it's an utterly stupid idea from politicians who think that criminals read up on all the laws and obey them.

This bill will not stop bad people injuring anyone. Bringing about social and economic conditions in which people don't need to commit crimes could be the answer, but it needs a level of dedication and wisdom which our government and legislature lack.

Or make the punishments so terrible that we go back to a system whereby criminals feared them, intead of the holiday farms they have now. Utopia is a nice and commendable idea, but many in society are far too stupid to be trusted with such altruistic ideals or understand a lot of crimes are not necessary, but they do them anyway. Methadone programs having had only a minor impact on heroin related crimes is just one example.

Prisons for such offences should make the offender leave the court room screaming for mercy.

 

[rafezetter]

"there's no argument, knives are dangerous and need to be controlled". So we stop totally innocent people carrying knives and see people stabbed to death by scrotes with a screwdriver. I wonder what they'll use when we ban the sale of screwdrivers? :?
(I've carried a knife since I was eight years old and don't see why I should stop now.)

Sharpened umbrellas - which was the argument used by my brief when a copper tried to get me sent to jail for taking a knife to work in my bag for reasons that were extremely valid and life preserving, not my own, my GF tried to suicide with it that morning.

He claimed I was going to walk around stabbing people despite no previous history, and my brief told the judge the policeman could do that with his umbrella should he choose. One of the few times the argument "guns don't kill people, people kill people" seemed to work. Case was dismissed.

 

[Rorschach]

I think it's an utterly stupid idea from politicians who think that criminals read up on all the laws and obey them.

This bill will not stop bad people injuring anyone. Bringing about social and economic conditions in which people don't need to commit crimes could be the answer, but it needs a level of dedication and wisdom which our government and legislature lack.

Or make the punishments so terrible that we go back to a system whereby criminals feared them, intead of the holiday farms they have now. Utopia is a nice and commendable idea, but many in society are far too stupid to be trusted with such altruistic ideals or understand a lot of crimes are not necessary, but they do them anyway. Methadone programs having had only a minor impact on heroin related crimes is just one example.

Prisons for such offences should make the offender leave the court room screaming for mercy.

Criminals have never feared punishment.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

My mother was a nurse in Plymouth in the early '50s. One of her patients was a man brought in from Dartmoor prison who had spent most of his adult life in gaol. He told her the one and only thing that had detered him from doing anything criminal in his past was the prospect of being birched.

 

[ScaredyCat]

My MP didn't reply at all.

I suspect he was worried about this bill though because he got caught repeatedly stabbing female office staff with his man sword.



.

 

[Tasky]

Or make the punishments so terrible that we go back to a system whereby criminals feared them, intead of the holiday farms they have now.

People are not disuaded by what might happen if they get caught, so much as the certainty of getting caught. The number of people executed throughout history is testament to that.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I got a reply -

Dear Mr Pascoe,
Thank you very much for your email and for sharing your concerns about the Offensive Weapons Bill.
George has been contacted by other constituents about the same matter so he has written to Victoria Atkins MP, Parliamentary under Secretary of State for Crime, Safeguarding and Vulnerability at the Home Office to ask for her thoughts.
As soon as we receive a response I will be back in touch.
Kind regards,
Amanda

Amanda Cowan
Office of George Eustice MP
House of Commons
London
SW1A 0AA

 

[Blockplane]

Anyone else get this this today ? :-

You recently signed the petition “Remove article 15 of the Offensive Weapons Bill (HC Bill 232)”:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/222776

The UK Government has introduced the Offensive Weapons Bill to change some of the laws about offensive weapons, including acid, knives and guns.

A group of MPs working on a Public Bill Committee are looking closely at the Offensive Weapons Bill to see what the changes would mean.

To help them with their work, they'd like to hear from you.

The Bill covers three types of weapon – acid, knives and offensive weapons, and firearms.

The key changes that the Bill would make are:

• a new offence of possessing a corrosive substance in a public place;

• a new offence of selling certain harmful corrosive products to under 18s;

• new restrictions on online sales of bladed articles and corrosive products, including restrictions on deliveries to residential premises;

• a new offence of possessing certain offensive weapons (the weapons concerned are already subject to restrictions on their sale, manufacture and importation); and

• reclassifying certain firearms as “prohibited weapons” under section 5 of the Firearms Act 1968.

You can find out more about the Public Bill Committee and how to have your say here:

https://www.parliament.uk/business/news ... pons-bill/

The sooner you send in your submission, the more time the Committee will have to look at it.

The Committee is expected to meet between Tuesday 17 July and Thursday 13 September 2018. It can't look at any new information after 13 September.

Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

 

[Seiken]

Yes I have received this email after signing the petition, I've also emailed my MP but as its Michael Gove I'm not holding my breath for any action on that front.

 

[skelph]

I received the same message after signing the petition but haven't had time to look further into it. Emailing our MP looks to have been a waste of time, so far only response I've had has been an automatic reply acknowledging receipt of my message.

 

[n0legs]

taking a knife to work in my bag .

I've got to ask, and I doubt I'm not the only one wondering, how did an officer of the law become aware you were carrying a knife??

When I was on the tools many times I would find many unsuitable items on my person in public places and the only good reason for having them was the fact I was in my overalls or work wear. The course of action on these occasions was to keep the item out of sight.

Do you have a shifty demeanour about you :lol:

 

[Brandlin]

Reply from my MP...

Thank you for contacting me regarding the forthcoming Offensive Weapons Bill.

Labour generally welcomes the introduction of this Bill. It is the first of many steps in acknowledging the growing epidemic of violence seen in our metropolitan and urban communities. But putting forward strongly worded documents will not help our police officers tackle this growing problem. Following eight years of austerity, and a loss of 21,000 officers, we can see a police force stretched to the limit: putting public safety at risk.

We must see resources put into our policing. This Bill also puts an onus on retail workers when it comes to the sale of certain goods. It is important that retail workers are also supported in their roles and that should mean greater protections against people who may turn aggressive when denied access to corrosive substances and knives.

I have written to the Secretary of State for the Home Department, Sajid Javid MP, and will be in contact as soon as I receive his response.

Thank you again for contacting me. Please do not hesitate to contact me further on this or any other matter.

Completely missing the point so i shall be badgering him again. I'm not interested in his party political line and views on the last 8 years - we shall keep party politics out of the debate.

but on the plus side the more "letters to the Minister" the better to get the issue aired and improved.

 

[Fergal]

At least you got a reply from your MP. All I got was the automated response. I won't say who he is, but I guess he's too busy planning his bid to oust the PM to deal with his pleb constituents.