New driver and impact - Bosch, Milwaukee, Fein or Panasonic?

[shed9]

Morning all, I'm about to push the button on buying a drill driver and impact set. I'm looking at getting the two separate tools, a couple of batteries, charger etc in the 18V range. Budget is around £350. Usually for new and replacement tools I'd go the Festool route as I've already invested significantly within that system. However I simply can't justify the drills in my own opinion. So I've got it down to four suppliers;

Bosch (blue)
I already have some Bosch SDS drills and they are bullet proof, I like the weight balance of their 18V tools and trust the brand.

Milwaukee
Never had any direct experience of these but the reviewers seem to love em. They always seem to beat other brands in stand off's

Fein
Again, no experience at all and reviews seem scant. That said, they are German and can't fault the MM. The design looks a little staid but they look solid.

Panasonic
This seems a bit of an outsider but they seem to be banded around as the next best thing to a Festool in terms of build and reliability. The batteries have good life spans and they seem an all round good brand.

I'm not interested in Makita, I know some people swear by them but I've had really bad experience with their batteries and will never again buy the brand.

Anyone able to offer any real life experience of the above or offer any advice? All appreciated.

 

[scholar]

I have recently replaced my old style (stick battery) 18v dewalt tools with a full set of the new Li-ion 18v range.

The old ones served me well for years and I sold them readily. The new ones are very nice. They include brushless impact driver and drill http://www.dewalt.co.uk/brushless/

I also have many Festools, a 36v Bosch hammer drill and numerous 10.8v Bosch tools; the Dewalt stuff stands very good comparison in my opinion. (For me it is good to have full interchangeability of batteries and chargers with angle grinder, light, circ saw, reciprocating saw, right angle drill, impact driver, hammer drill, jigsaw plus the dab/fm radio!).

My Festool drill is an old 12v (non-hammer drill) with full set of right angle adapter, offset adapter, full Centrotec set etc and if you do not have these, I would say they are worth a large part of the Festool premium.

Not sure if that helps a lot, other than for my money, I do rate the dewalt (plus there are good deals available).

Cheers

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

When I was faced with a similar decision what I valued mostly was buying into the right family because once I started down the route I wanted the same charger and 18v batteries to operate multiple different bodies which in my case apart from drill drivers were: little vacuum (I use it in the kitchen for all manner of small disasters), little blower...on the lathe all the time and also bandsaw to remove damp dust from green wood, torch, hand held planar, jigsaw, hand held circ saw and reciprocating saw.

I didn't buy them all in one go.....the collection evolved but all compatible with charger and battery. That means I can and have been buying body only tools for years now which is way cheaper. I went Makita myself but have some of the Bosch blue range before I standardised and also Dewalt. I couldn't fault any of them. None has ever let me down. I also wouldn't buy Festool for the commodity type jobs like drill driving because their pricing is just taking the micky in my view. Domino...different story

Not tried Milwaukee but the build quality looks superb (you pay for it too). I have a Fein tool and they're good also, build quality wise and not tried Panasonic except for a router I've had for over 20 years which still works

All the odds and sods pre-date the standardising on Makita which I now buy exclusively if they do the tool needed just for the compatibility. Again, some folks seem to be have been let down by them, I'm not one of them.

 

[shed9]

Hi Scholar, thanks for the input - yes it very helpful. I've got some Dewalt stuff but been a bit mixed on it as I've had a few issues with drill clutches on Dewalt. I am leaning towards brushless where I can so will give these a good look as well.

Thanks

 

[Mark A]

Metabo may be worth looking into as well. I haven't used their cordless tools but all the corded I own are very well built.

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[shed9]

Random Orbital Bob. I'm not usually mobile so most of my tools are corded. The only aspect where I appreciate and prefer cordless is in the drill and impact units so I'm not too fussed in building up further cordless tools. I can see your argument for standardising but I'm more concentrated on getting the best quality I can afford in two units for now.

I know Makita are working for lots of people out there and working very well, but I really just had a gutful of it so I'm just going to avoid it for now.

Mark A, I've seen too many quality issues online for the cordless range of Metabo, enough for me to leave off my list for now. I've got an old driver unit of theirs and whilst it was a robust unit I too had too many issues with motor failures.

Appreciate the replies all.

 

[Mark A]

Ignore what i said about Metabo then. I'm very surprised to learn people have issues with their reliability as the corded tools are excellent IMO. I'd better remove them from my list for cordless tools then! Thanks

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[Eric The Viking]

Is this for drill-driving into wood only, or masonry/metal, or what?

I ask because the 9.6v Lithium battery ones work well for assembly work (I use a mains SDS for masonry, and a drill press for metal, usually). There's an argument that higher voltages don't necessarily improve matters, as the battery packs are harder to make, have lower energy density, and are more prone to early failure. They're also bigger and more cumbersome, which for me limits their usefulness, quite a bit.

I know the higher voltages are popular, but I wouldn't be without the 9.6V ones I have.

E.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Higher voltages are more prone to early failure. I only read this recently, but it makes perfect sense - they are constructed from 1.2V cells, the more cells the higher the voltage. But the life span of the battery is determined by the weakest cell so the more cells the greater the chance of earlier failure.
Just in case someone hasn't read what I read.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Higher voltages are more prone to early failure. I only read this recently, but it makes perfect sense - they are constructed from 1.2V cells, the more cells the higher the voltage. But the life span of the battery is determined by the weakest cell so the more cells the greater the chance of earlier failure.
Just in case someone hasn't read what I read.

I'm certain that's correct.

As far as I can see, higher voltage products are a marketing/sales ploy rather than an improvement. It's perfectly possible to make lower voltage cordless tools work well, but the manufacturers choose not to.

Contrast this with mobile phones, etc. where the drive is to get processors working on the lowest possible voltages.
It's not entirely a fair comparison (he said, quickly), but the simpler the battery, the simpler the charge management system, and the better it can work.

 

[bexupnorth]

I bought a little 10.8 volt deWalt Impact drive and have to say I'm delighted. It's seen almost daily use for nearly 18 months (I'm an enthusiastic amateur). I was worried that 10.8 V wouldn't pack a big enough punch, but its driven 4" screws into pine no problem and I've yet to find something it can't handle. I discovered a set of drills with hex attachments that have proved indispensable and as a result haven't used a "real" drill since unless it was my SDS beast that has a chuck and takes my bigger drills on the rare occasion when drill sizes mean Fred isn't an option (everyone names their favourite tools right?).

Slightly off topic, but I hope my experiences spark some creative thought

Ade

 

[cambournepete]

My Panasonic batteries (NiMH) are dying and I've not had them as long as my Festool ones which are still going strong.

 

[shed9]

Mark A, don't get me wrong re: my own opinion on cordless Metabo - it is just that my own opinion. I know plenty of people swear by Metabo and I think its just a case of being unlucky for me (and a few others). My own experiences are just a bit tainted is all. I do appreciate your input...

Eric the Viking /bexupnorth / phil.p, I'm looking for wood only for mostly drilling and heavier duty assembly specifically in 18v. I already have some SDS units for brick, etc and a Festool CXS for light assembly. I've looked at the other 10.8 range but I'm looking for more grunt, hence the 18v.

I'm surprised your batteries are going cambournepete, I'd yet to hear of a complaint against the Panasonics.

 

[carlb40]

I haven't really used much in the way of Milwaukee tools apart from a few of the lads at work. One of who has the driver/ impact driver and doesn't rate them at all. His impact driver has been in for repair a few times since new.

At present i am a makita man, but am in the process of moving over to Festool. I have the CXS at the mo and that is my go to drill now for most of my work. It even sank some 6 inch screws via the angle thingy without any pre drilled holes and never batted an eye lid about it.

 

[speed]

ive had my festool drill since 2009 and use it daily (trade use) and the batteries outlast my newer bosch blue both 2.6ah batts

 

[shed9]

I keep looking at the Festool drills but really don't think they have the right package. The drill drivers are spot on but the T15 impact is a tad lacklustre which kind of defeats the point of the system approach.

Nearly every other tool I possess is Festool and it makes the most sense as I'm fully aware of the superb quality of the tools and the system on a whole but I'm just not convinced their drills are the route for me to go. I'm still open to them, indeed even other brands but all my research has led to the four above to date.

 

[kostello]

I say Panasonic.... Got 14.4 kit and it rocks...
I've even still got my 15 year old impact driver that works fine apart from the batteries are worn out...
.
I think Panasonic make most of the batteries for everyone else.

 

[speed]

id get the panasonic 14v twinset, panasonic worked with hilti to produce these drills i believe

 

[No skills]

Sorry boring post....

In the last 19 odd years I've had 9 cordless drills - some for work/some for home. At my current (newish) job I don't have to supply my own tools so my last work drill set came home with me when I left the last job. That was lucky as my home drill had just perished, now that drill is on its last legs and I'm after a new one... (and a matching impact driver)

Currently in the running are the Panasonic 18v - Milwaukee Fuel 18v - Fein 18v 4 speed - Festool PDC.

Favouring the Fein ATM despite the price and the lack of feedback - the Panasonic sets seem to have a brushless impact but not the drill (eh?) - Milwaukee has fair reviews stateside but again little feedback here, however they do have that heated jacket which would be nice at work come winter time - the Festool has good extras but the price is way too much and I don't fancy the impact either, but its a Festool 8)


Hmmm.

 

[mbartlett99]

Its been asked - what do you want it for? 18v is great for all day duty on the building site, masonry and steel but when I bought the wife the Makita 10.8v set I couldn't believe the performance. Borrowed it and was banging in screws through 2x4s all day with the impact driver. I still buy 18v for work - nut spinner but unless I was a joiner the dewalt and makita 10.8s are now my favourite. Much lighter too.

Metabo tools are usually really good but the cordless ones I'm not convinced at all about. Milwaukee I used in the states a lot and they were ok but not top notch IMHO.