New boiler

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devonwoody

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Might have to consider a new boiler for C/H and hot water.

Can the new bolilers (without tank) be fitted at ground level or have they got to be a certain height off the floor?We are a bungalow.
 
Hi DW

When you say "without tank" do you mean you want a combi boiler with small built in tank and get rid of your existing hw cylinder or standard boiler and keep the cylinder?

You can get both as either wall or floor mounting models and there can be a variety of fitting positions dependant upon flue requirements and fuel type as well as heat output - dependant on number of radiators etc..

New boilers must now be "condensing" design and high efficiency. Combi boilers (in very simple terms) are like a large instant water heater with a reserve tank built in so you mostly heat only what you are using.

Bob
 
Thanks Lons for your help. So it has got to be a condensing boiler but it can be floor standing.

To keep an airing cupboard, I suppose a radiator is then fitted?
 
We live in a bungalow and our combi boiler is in the loft, I think you can have it fitted almost anywhere but try to have it as close to the taps as you can, we can run off almost 2 gallons before hot water comes out.
 
You can also mound a wall boiler at low level provided you can get the flue out OK so don't limit your choice to floor mounted ones

Jason
 
We had a new boiler fitted a short while back and talked over stacks of possible fitting locations and options with our plumbers. Seems boilers can be fitted just about anywhere now as long as there is space to hang it on the wall (or mount it on the floor if you go for that style). You will need some space around the boiler but if you are replacing a 20 year old boiler the new one will almost certainly be smaller and therefore fit in the gap left.

The only problem might be the flue. Condensing boilers rely on a fan to push the flue gasses out as they are too cool to rise efficiently on their own and there are strict limits on the length of the flue pipe and the number and type of bends it can have. Condensing boilers also require a drain for the condensate which, I think, has to drain outside in case flue gasses enter it.
 
wobblycogs":9lxwrykc said:
Condensing boilers also require a drain for the condensate which, I think, has to drain outside in case flue gasses enter it.

The condensate is acidic hence it is required to be drained - there is nothing stopping you from having the drain piping inside and then it going outside at ground level, if you boiler is in the loft or something. That would stop the condensate pipe from freezing over in a bad cold spell - which happened last time round to loads of folk.

Dibs
 
dw...if you had an old-style CH boiler with an expansion tank in the loft and you've had it for a long time, then if you go down the combi route be prepared. Be very prepared for leaks in your ch system which will now be cranked up to mains pressure. Some of those leaks will be unseen. Hidden behind walls and underneath floors. The most hassle free route is to replace with a condensing normal boiler. But if you live in a hard water area then consider replacing your hot water tank.
 
RogerS":gtw8ho9d said:
he most hassle free route is to replace with a condensing normal boiler.

What eee said.

We have a somewhat 'exotic' system, of solar heating plus a condensing 'system' boiler (it's the trade term for ornery ones), and it's all installed in a side attic on the top floor. There is a separate pressurised hot water tank. I don't think there's a limit to how low you can have them on the inside wall (ours is almost at floor level), BUT the pipes enter and leave at the bottom usually, so fitting them low down is a PITA for access later. Flues can be ducted quite long distances, both horizontally and vertically, they're also pretty narrow, so you can run one inside an old flue from an earlier boiler if you want to. As mentioned, you do have to have a drain nearby, to deal with the acidic condensate, but ours just comes out at the eaves of the house and drains into the plastic gutter - it was a bit of a fiddle to organise but it works fine.

You can either put a rad in the airing cupboard, or a hot water tank as before. You shouldn't need a header tank in the attic, which is a good thing on balance.

I wouldn't worry unduly about pressurizing the heating system: it will work fine as low as 1.5bar, it's never at mains pressure, and leak sealer (goes in the water along with the corrosion proofer) will deal with small leaks. You can see how much water is being lost by the pressure gauge on the boiler. If the system is <20 years old it ought to be OK.

The hot water will be pressurised if you have a combi, as will the bath cold tap (if you take the cold water header tank out), but that still shouldn't be more than 3bar, and you can dial that down on most pressure reducers. Combis do usually need a pressurised cold feed though to work correctly. If you fit a 'system' boiler, the hot water can be at the same pressure it is now.

My only concern would be that your water probably comes from Dartmoor or Exmoor, and is thus acidic. The pipes don't fur-up like ours do, but they do corrode, so I'd give all brass fittings a careful check - they lose the zinc and go cheese-like in the wrong conditions ('de-zincification'), usually due to electrolytic corrosion. Your plumber ought to give you some idea of the health of the rest of the system, and can pressure-test (using air) to check for leaks. I think Roger mentioned replacing the tank: in hard water they fill with sludge, and in soft water they corrode - I'd do yours if you're keeping that system.

Our house still has some 30-year-old rads, thermostats and piping in it, which are fine. If yours is old enough to have 1/2" and 3/4 piping instead of 15mm & 22, there might be a problem, but that would date it around 1970 or earlier.

Sadly, boilers are no longer a DIY job, so you probably have to budget at least £2,000 for boiler+fittings+labour (and that's optimistic). There are grants for eco-friendly new boilers though.

One final tip: find out which brand of boiler the local plumbers prefer. The modern ones need regular servicing and spares, and parts can cost £loads (I'd avoid Vaillant for that reason alone - ours has been horribly expensive already, and Vaillant's customer support is rubbish as far as I can tell). If you get a popular one, chances are spares will be available.

HTH,

E. (I'm only a DIY plumber but I've been doing it for 30 years, and have put in combis in the past, when it was legal to DIY it).
 
The system we had fitted recently is essentially the same as the one Eric describes. We went with a Worcester-Bosch boiler on the recommendation of our plumbers and many good reviews. It was a little more expensive than most but the boiler was / is one of the most efficient around and the customer service has been excellent.

If you are worried about corrosion you can plumb most of the heating system in plastic push fit (we use JG SpeedFit - good joints every time). The only bit that can't be plastic is right up near the boiler, first 1.5m of pipe IIRC.
 
assuming that you require a gas boiler, a worcester-bosch cdi combi boiler is generally one of the best combi boilers around.
as a boiler engineer myself and a plumber for over 7 years, i would steer clear of the combi boiler option. i also live in a bunglow, my system is a normal heat only boiler, linked to a pressurised 180l hot water cylinder which is sited in my loft (boiler in the utility). this gives mains power hot water (no need for a shower pump) with 180l stored hot water and a emersion back up. threrfore you will never be without hot water, where as with a combi when breaks down you are left with nothing.
 
devonwoody":21e0v2nc said:
Thanks Lons for your help. So it has got to be a condensing boiler but it can be floor standing.

To keep an airing cupboard, I suppose a radiator is then fitted?

Hi DW

I hope I haven't confused you.

A combi boiler is very different from a std ch condensing boiler. the condensing bit is just the efficiency technology and it produces an acidic fluid which must be drained away.

A combi system does not use a HW cylinder as it heats a small reserve held in a small tank within the boiler casing and heats more on demand. therefore if you need an airing cupboard you would need warm pipes or small rad fitted there.

If you opt for a standard replacement condensing boiler then your hw cylinder would remain in use.

Benefits of a combi are that it doesn't heat up a full tank but the downside is if you have a large bath or big family you may run short of hot water. Also a combi system offers powerfull showering and good hw pressure without shower pumps but I've seen a number of system leaks following replacement which I assume is down to increased pressure.

My personal preference is for a standard system and I replaced mine a couple of years ago with a Worcester Bosch boiler (oil as we've no gas).

As an aside, I don't think modern boilers are robust and certainly don't seem to last long :(

Bob
 
Many thank to all contributors above.

Our present system is 26 years old, it works for us, we have to turn the heating down many evenings in the winter because we get too warm.
However, the three way motor valve broke down last spring and I haven't repaired it yet, radiators are looking tatty, wondering whether to soldier on or look at the costs before Ossy gets his pen out.

So a condensing boiler is what? our present boiler has the flue outlet on an outside wall, also the air inlet in the same grill. It is also fitted into our kitchen units at floor level and I don't want a new kitchen as well. Will a condensing boiler just pop into the existing boiler cupboard do you think?
 
Looking on the web for a normal condensing boiler (suggested by RogerS above)

A bit confused, can you direct me to a link on the web for a NORMAL condensing boiler model please.
All links I see mention the word combi.
 
No I'm not suggesting any of them because I'm not an expert in this field. Just trying to point you in the vaguely right direction as far as I am able. Why not get a couple of local reputable ch engineers to advise/quote?
 
Yes that is what is going to happen, but wanting to know what the different independent options are, because of lack of knowledge on these new fangled things.

Now going out to my workshop and have a tidy up and blow out, might even take some pictures for a change. :wink:
 
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