New bandsaw...decision made

[Stevebod]

I‘ve just checked mine. Bearing is 22mm so same as yours. However, blade sitting in the middle of the top wheel also sits pretty much in the middle of the bottom wheel but I seem to remember having a tweak of the lower wheel adjustment to get this. But in general my blades do sit further forward in the machine than I think they should, I.e. they’re not in the middle of the zero clearance plate but this has never had any impact.

One suggestion is to replace all the Alan key headed bolts with some twist button/thumb screws, makes adjustments and opening the doors a lot easier, again no idea why RP doesn’t fit these from new.

Hi and many thanks for the feedback. How do you change the alignment of the lower wheel?

 

[Stevebod]

..Hi again, just been googling this, and popular opinion is that it doesn't really matter were the blade sits on the bottom wheel so I will leave well alone! Still not sure why I can't get the upper "back" guide to sit near the blade though?...I may give Record a call, but not sure there is anything I can do as this guide is simply too far back from the blade and runs out of adjustment?

 

[pe2dave]

I’ve never been convinced with this guy’s philosophy of having the teeth (or was it the gullet, can’t remember?) of the blade running in the centre of the wheel. I tried this on my saw and left it tensioned overnight and it left marks in the tyres. This makes me think that it will a) damage the tyre, b) reduce the set of the blade c) I completely misunderstood what he was saying…

IMHO his logic is sound... for a wide blade / narrow tyre?
Does strengthen the logic of releasing tension when done with the saw?
Bearing setup is good.

Note alignment of two wheels top to bottom? He says *leave it* - the mfc knows what they're doing?

 

[Ttrees]

I recently made a very long winded video for checking lower wheel adjustment.
Doing it wrong can result in damaged motor bearings, if your belt is tight.
You need multiple reliable blades (as in running nicely on the saw)
to rule out that, and must take measurements of everything first, note things like vibration to start with.

You could likely use a long level if you have one instead of the plumb bobs.
I'll bet there's a dozen things which could be improved on.
I needed to move my machine out from the wall, and make some blocks, as my floor is dodgy, and other work being done on the machine.
I'll take a bet any company wouldn't be all to keen on you going near the machine and possibly may void your warranty, if you're thinking on adjusting much!

 

[pe2dave]

..Hi again, just been googling this, and popular opinion is that it doesn't really matter were the blade sits on the bottom wheel so I will leave well alone! Still not sure why I can't get the upper "back" guide to sit near the blade though?...I may give Record a call, but not sure there is anything I can do as this guide is simply too far back from the blade and runs out of adjustment?

Suggest step back and look at the whole support items (assume you're talking about the top support setup).
I'm sure the whole gizmo can be shifted forward and back, after which the bearings (side and thrust) can be finely adjusted?

 

[mikej460]

I’ve never been convinced with this guy’s philosophy of having the teeth (or was it the gullet, can’t remember?) of the blade running in the centre of the wheel. I tried this on my saw and left it tensioned overnight and it left marks in the tyres. This makes me think that it will a) damage the tyre, b) reduce the set of the blade c) I completely misunderstood what he was saying…

He says to ensure the bottom of the teeth should sit on the peak of the wheel which is the centre. That way the teeth will be proud of the front half of the wheel. If it's marking your wheel it may be because it is too far back. I followed this setup method and it has transformed by bandsaw but I had to donit several times to get it right. Another bit of advice is to untension the bandsaw overnight but I've yet to get this into my ageing brain...

 

[Stevebod]

Suggest step back and look at the whole support items (assume you're talking about the top support setup).
I'm sure the whole gizmo can be shifted forward and back, after which the bearings (side and thrust) can be finely adjusted?

.....ooops soory, yes the upper support is all part of the same assembly which can be moved as one block, I actually meant to say the "lower" back support. This mechanism is built into the base that support the table and trunion mechanism and has a lot of travel, but all in the wrong direction!

 

[MikeJhn]

Following the advice on the Snodgrass video and changing the blade guides (link below) transformed my BS350 into an accurate machine that stays adjusted for weeks on end, only needs a tweek if I change blade.

Link to guide change: Axminster HBS350N / RECORD POWER BS350 Bandsaw Advice?

 

[Stevebod]

Lower rear guide pics. The top pic is looking down (table removed), into the table trunion mechanism that supports the rear bearing "bar". This moves forward to allow the bottom back bearing to be pushed just behind the blade, (lower picture). In the top picture the bearing support bar is almost out of the guide cheeks to obtain the bearing position shown in the lower pic...

 

[RichardG]

I’ve found RP support to be good so recommend giving them a ring. However here are some pictures of mine which may be useful for reference.

Distant from the rear 12mm blade to guide housing is 53mm.

where blade is sitting on the top wheel.

Distance between the guide block and the frame.

and showing the use of thumb buttons instead of Alan keys.

 

[RichardG]

Also here’s where the blade sits on the table.

and the distance at the rear of the blade adjuster, sorry bit blurred.

edit: meant to say that the rear guide adjustment seems to have two nuts locked together to limit how far the guide can move forward, this may just need tweaking? Hard to see without removing the table which I’m a bit loathed to do at the moment.

 

[Alexam]

Mike, Alex Snodgrass has a very wide reputation built up over many years and I have followed his methods since I started using a bandsaw. For some unknown reason, many people get a new machine and suddenly want to change the design. There is nothing wrong with the design. Ignor the bottom wheel movement as it is designed to move according to the set up of the top wheel. In general, I use smaller blades, 1/4" and 1/8", with the gullet of the teeth set in the center of the top wheel. The tire on the top wheel shown no signs of damage by the teeth after over 5 years of use, so dont worry so much. I do not really understand you comment about the back tensioner. The wheel on my BS400 can be turned to move the blade as far forward or backward as required and is very sensative. When I first set up a blade, I move ALL guides well away from the blade, not forgetting the rear thrust bearing top and bottom. Then set the blade to run correctly in the top center. Only then move the guide to where they should be. I hope this helps. Good luck

 

[Alexam]

Possibly the following may help ...

GET THE BEST TUNING FROM A BANDSAW

'Alex Snodgrass of Carter Industries has an excellent video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGbZqWac0jU on a tune up method that works well. His updated version also here -

The following video may help some owners with a Record BS400, but it is similar to most machines blade changes -

Blades can run and cut without any guides whatsoever () as long as the machine is tuned correctly. This is how the blade should be running BEFORE the guides are brought into play on your machine, so that they can 'bump back' the blade should it wander, so please dont get guides near the blade before you know it is running clear and staying in the same place.


CHECKING BLADE TENSION - Flutter test Video's -

and

Tuning a bandsaw is only that and nothing else. If you really want to get the very best use of your bandsaw on an ongoing basis, then the Steve Maskery DVD's will show you far more and they are a real investment that you should own. http://www.workshopessentials.com/shop/ '.

BUY BEST BLADES FROM ..... Tuff Saws

TUNE WITH SOUND ? How to set your bandsaw tension with a GUITAR TUNER ( UNPROVEN )

Whenever you put a blade on a bandsaw, ask yourself the following questions:-

....... are you managing to get the blade running freely and central on the top wheel ( without guides or rear bearing near the blade ) with the gullet of the teeth in the centre of the top wheel ? The exception would be with wider blades, as 1/2" and wider may not sit 'centred' on the top wheel).

That's the first priority before closing in guides and support/thrust bearings. The blade will not be in the centre of the lower wheel as the manufacturer allows the top wheel to be adjusted and tilt to allow tuning.

Is the blade running vertical 90° to the table alignment, front and back as well as side to side?

Once the guides and bearings have been brought to the correct position, (not touching when the blade runs freely) is the blade remaining where it should be when run under power and switched on and off checking several times ? IMPORTANTLY, your guides should all have a locking mechanism and it ius important to make dure that you have tightened those locks tightly. \If not, vibration could allow the guides to move closer and possibly lock the blade.

Make sure that the blade tension is correct, or as near as it can be. Each blade could be different, even if it is the same depth, so needs to be checked whenever changing blades.

If all these things are correct, then you should get a true cut unless you are trying to cut the wood too fast and it's filling the teeth with sawdust and pushing the blade out of line and see if teeth are damaged in any way.

Finally, if you have used the blade before, make sure the teeth are clean, as sawdust and sap can stick in the teeth gullet and side of the blade. Cleaning with a wire brush will result in a far better cut before starting a new job, but certainly on a regular basis. Methalated spirit is good for removing the sap resin if it has built up and don't forgrt to check the wheels for this type of build up.


Carter blade Stabilizer - by Alex Snodgrass. https://youtu.be/w_tv7cm0-VU

This video shows how well a stabilizer works for smaller blades with the guide only above the table. I have one of these which works well. The back of the blade gullet is also on the centre line on the upper wheel as per his usual advice. Product Range - http://www.carterproducts.com/band-saw-products/band-saw-stabilizer

Finally, if you have an older machine with 3 phase connections, this following video may help

https://youtu.be/ZqnfLHhuuUQ = 3 phase converter

Good luck with your woodworkworking.

Malcolm

 

[Stevebod]

Hi Richard G, and many thanks for taking the time to post all the details and measurements. I will compare to mine.
Much appreciated.....

Also thanks to Alexem for all the vids. Seen some before but not the"flutter"!

I have a new Tuffsaws blade due anytime soon so I will be resetting it up when the new blade arrives!

 

[Delwood]

I‘ve just checked mine. Bearing is 22mm so same as yours. However, blade sitting in the middle of the top wheel also sits pretty much in the middle of the bottom wheel but I seem to remember having a tweak of the lower wheel adjustment to get this. But in general my blades do sit further forward in the machine than I think they should, I.e. they’re not in the middle of the zero clearance plate but this has never had any impact.

One suggestion is to replace all the Alan key headed bolts with some twist button/thumb screws, makes adjustments and opening the doors a lot easier, again no idea why RP doesn’t fit these from new.

I hesitate to offer advice on the BS300 as they have evolved considerably from my 16 year old model, it has cast alloy wheels and not the cast iron you get now, and the fence is not the "industrial Startright design". However the table is larger, the doors have locking knobs and, more importantly, it has the cam action blade tension release . Apart from the difficult blade tension system I have been happy with the bandsaw and have only changed the band wheel tyres and the drive belt once.
Back to your queries the blade sits on the middle of both wheel tyres. There is plenty of travel to set the lower thrust bearing. The hole in the table is 70mm in diameter and a 3/8 blade (measured from the back of the blade sits 32mm from the front of the hole and 37.5 from the rear.

 

[Stevebod]

Hi again all,

Tuffsaws blade arrived today, so just spent another happy hour or two setting everything back. I picked up some useful tips which I was not aware of in the above vids, so thanks for posting them.

Everything seems to be working OK, but I have not cut anything "big" yet! Already found some "flaws" in the bandsaw design, like you can't easily see the position of the bottom guides to the blade without taking the table off! (I managed to partially remove the plastic cover which helped, but a bit of a pig to re attach as the screws are on the top and sandwiched between the table...), am I missing something?

The door opening and closing mechanism seem a bit over complicated, (a worm drive?) and a bit of a faf to keep winding them in and out, although I suppose once set up they are not used that much, but I do like to open the lower door to clean out the machine after use.

It's certainly a step up from my Aldi toy, but I think I will keep it and maybe fit the smallest blade I can to use more as a scroll saw?

...just need a project now!!

 

[Gordon Tarling]

I've just commissioned my new RP Sabre 350 saw and found similar with the lower blade guide - easy to adjust and lock when above the table, but a real pain (in the back) to adjust below the table. Dust collection could be better, too, but I think most bandsaws suffer the same. My only real gripe is that the fence is too tall for most of the work that I do and it takes up too much real estate when turned 90 degrees for cutting thinner material - anyone know of an alternative extrusion that might fit?

G.

 

[pe2dave]

My only real gripe is that the fence is too tall for most of the work that I do and it takes up too much real estate when turned 90 degrees for cutting thinner material - anyone know of an alternative extrusion that might fit?

G.

Video, this thread, showed a magnetic fence - may be of use if it's infrequent? Assumes cast bed.

 

[Gordon Tarling]

Thanks - had previously missed that. I could easily fabricate something like that, but the drawback is that it won't be held parallel to the blade and table slots, so would require to be aligned every time it was moved. I'm currently looking at finding a piece of t-track or similar that'll fit the fence support block, then I can make a 19mm plywood fence whatever height I like.

G.

 

[pe2dave]

Thanks - had previously missed that. I could easily fabricate something like that, but the drawback is that it won't be held parallel to the blade and table slots, so would require to be aligned every time it was moved. I'm currently looking at finding a piece of t-track or similar that'll fit the fence support block, then I can make a 19mm plywood fence whatever height I like.

G.

From others, 'near' parallel is good enough (we are told) - you could fix something up to get within a millimetre? How often would you need this 'small' fence?