My Incra router table build

[Sporky McGuffin]

in my opinion from an engineering perspective these lifts running on linear bearings have to be better than the UJK item that uses a chain and sprockets to move four post, which must move simultanously to prevent binding which could be a longer term issue.

I'm a professional engineer, for what it's worth. Masters degree and 20 years in engineering design. The Axi lift has performed faultlessly for over ten years and still works perfectly. The Incra can't even be zeroed.

I appreciate now that I made a mistake posting this thread; honest reviews just aren't welcome. I've gone from a bit annoyed with the lack of attention to quality, to wanting to take a chainsaw to the sodding thing and throw it in the sea.

Peter - I am fully aware that the Incra lift works with round routers, I even mentioned that it works with my Bosch GMF1400CE. Perhaps you could stop treating me like a moron for long enough to spell my name right, and stop acting like your customer services - who talked me into spending twice my budget on a badly made piece of rubbish - are going to do anything about it.

 

[DBT85]

May I ask what you mean by the incra not being able to be zeroed? you mean the height adjuster dial thing can't be set independently of the screw so that you can see you've moved from 0 to 2mm or whatever?? I'm interested as I'd had my eye on the mastrlift with the cleansweep plates.

honest reviews just aren't welcome

I legitimately do not know why you'd get that impression from the responses you've had, including from the people that sold you the thing.

 

[Ollie78]

Apart from the cheap handle and unpolished insert rings are you happy with the actual mechanism, in my opinion from an engineering perspective these lifts running on linear bearings have to be better than the UJK item that uses a chain and sprockets to move four post, which must move simultanously to prevent binding which could be a longer term issue.

This may be true. However the same chain connected method is used on planer thicknessers which need to move a big cast table in parallel and seem to do fine.

Ollie

 

[MikeK]

I'm a professional engineer, for what it's worth. Masters degree and 20 years in engineering design. The Axi lift has performed faultlessly for over ten years and still works perfectly. The Incra can't even be zeroed.

This is the second time you have stated this, and I don't understand why you can't zero your Incra lift. I zero mine every time I change the cutters or want to set a new reference point, and I don't think it could be easier. Once I set the elevation and lock the lift, I rotate the ring so the zero lines up with any of the four index marks. The lift is accurate and repeatable and I haven't been bothered to finish wiring up the Wixey DRO.

I appreciate now that I made a mistake posting this thread; honest reviews just aren't welcome. I've gone from a bit annoyed with the lack of attention to quality, to wanting to take a chainsaw to the sodding thing and throw it in the sea.

I have the same feeling towards my Holzmann HOB260NL P/T, which cost a bit more than my router table.

Peter - I am fully aware that the Incra lift works with round routers, I even mentioned that it works with my Bosch GMF1400CE. Perhaps you could stop treating me like a moron for long enough to spell my name right, and stop acting like your customer services - who talked me into spending twice my budget on a badly made piece of rubbish - are going to do anything about it.

Hmmm...

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

This is the second time you have stated this, and I don't understand why you can't zero your Incra lift. I zero mine every time I change the cutters or want to set a new reference point, and I don't think it could be easier. Once I set the elevation and lock the lift, I rotate the ring so the zero lines up with any of the four index marks. The lift is accurate and repeatable and I haven't been bothered to finish wiring up the Wixey DRO.

View attachment 122403

Just tried that. If the lift is locked I can't turn the handle in the height slot, and I can't turn the ring by fingertip. It's not mentioned in the manual either.

 

[Spectric]

This may be true. However the same chain connected method is used on planer thicknessers which need to move a big cast table in parallel and seem to do fine.

In that application it is a straight transfer of motion from A to B, not a system with syncronisation. A simple solution that works is always better than complexity which in my opinion the UJK lift is, just more parts and complexity rather than a simple single lead screw.

I should add that I have worked in engineering for over forty years, twenty in R&D with ten in nuclear and with some big names so lets not start getting wound up because that never solves any problems but I can fully understand your frustration as you have laid out a large chunk of cash with high expectations and they have not been met, so yes I can see why you are not happy but many of us have been there and also been helped by people on this forum who have been supportive in that situation, well most of the time. I brought a Domino 700 and you think you have been short changed !

So your grieviance is with Incra, as you said there is nothing Peter can do but he can threaten Incra with some bad press which they will not like and hopefully something can be resolved to make you a happy chap again.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

So your grieviance is with Incra, as you said there is nothing Peter can do but he can threaten Incra with some bad press which they will not like and hopefully something can be resolved to make you a happy chap again.

And, up until I got fed up with him typing my name wrong and suggesting I didn't know what router lift I'd bought, my criticisms have all been of Incra, not WWW, who are just a box-shifting operation. I said I was open to suggestions and am, but it seems daft to phone in and say "I've built this and have design and QC criticisms", because WWW didn't design it and didn't do any QC.

 

[MikeK]

Just tried that. If the lift is locked I can't turn the handle in the height slot, and I can't turn the ring by fingertip. It's not mentioned in the manual either.

You are correct, it is not in the manual, and I can't remember where I saw or read about the ring rotation. The ring is stiff on purpose so it stays in position with the lift shaft while changing the router height. I have to use both thumbs in opposing direction to rotate the ring once the lift is locked, but it does rotate...at least mine does.

 

[Bristol_Rob]

Hi Spooky McGuffin, as an authorised dealer for INCRA we always appreciate the feedback and do pass this on to our relevant contacts at INCRA, whilst you are correct in that we have not direct influence on design or quality control, as the dealer who has provided the service and items for your order we want to make sure that you, as our customer, are satisfied with your purchase.


If you do wish to take up our offer of customer support please contact the team regarding the issues that have been raised in this thread and they will do all they can to help you out - [email protected] or call us on 01684 594683

Peter
As someone who is interested in the Incra lift I've been reading this thread with interest.

I'm now mostly interested in Incras position and business response when a customer has these kind of issues?

How do you find them from a business point of view?

 

[Ollie78]

In that application it is a straight transfer of motion from A to B, not a system with syncronisation.

I have not, I confess worked as an engineer, which is perhaps why this statement confuses me.
All I know is that when I took apart my old planer thicknesser to change the capacitor, it had an extremely similar mechanism to that on the UJK router table. Surely there must be a synchronicity between the 4 leadscrews linked by the chains, otherwise the table would be out of square?

I think that it is important for companies who charge a lot for stuff to be accountable or shamed when they do shabby quality control and or cost reduction at the expense of quality. I think Sporky McGuffin is right to be annoyed. If his setup cost £500 then maybe it would be acceptable but not at a premium price like Incra stuff.

Ollie

 

[DBT85]

.at least mine does.

Heavy handed MikeK broke it and made it better

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

You are correct, it is not in the manual, and I can't remember where I saw or read about the ring rotation. The ring is stiff on purpose so it stays in position with the lift shaft while changing the router height. I have to use both thumbs in opposing direction to rotate the ring once the lift is locked, but it does rotate...at least mine does.

Mine does not turn independently of the raise/lower mechanism. It cannot be zeroed by any method discernible to me.

Surely there must be a synchronicity between the 4 leadscrews linked by the chains, otherwise the table would be out of square?

Yes. Never had any binding with mine, and having equal force at all four corners is a better design than the Incra's off-centre drive, relying on the slides trying to keep it all square. In practice both seem to work fine.

 

[MikeK]

Here is a short video I just made showing the rotation of the reference ring. You might have to click on the full screen icon in the lower right corner of the video to view it better.

 

[Spectric]

I think that it is important for companies who charge a lot for stuff to be accountable or shamed when they do shabby quality control and or cost reduction at the expense of quality.

Do you blame the company or is it that too many customers now just accept lower standards, so much is customer driven that OEM's have cut corners to meet an already tight budget and what they deem as just cosmetic gets through QC. If EVERYONE raised quality issues then they would have to listen but just a few is no skin off their backs. I have already mentioned in another thread that I thought that the positioner end plate was sub standard, but that is sub standard to my expectations and has no impact on it's functionality. If I make something like a metal plate I do not like to see saw or cutting marks and would draw file and sand but thats me and Sporky obviously see's the same.

It is sad but I can honestly say that over the last thirty odd years I have seen standards slide and to much cheap tacky goods becoming acceptable, people seem to be losing pride in what they do and it is all about a fast buck.

 

[Spectric]

You are correct, it is not in the manual, and I can't remember where I saw or read about the ring rotation. The ring is stiff on purpose so it stays in position with the lift shaft while changing the router height. I have to use both thumbs in opposing direction to rotate the ring once the lift is locked, but it does rotate...at least mine does.

Does anyone know if this also applies to the Jessem?

 

[DBT85]

Does anyone know if this also applies to the Jessem?

They are the same thing aren't they?

 

[MikeK]

They are the same thing aren't they?

JessEm makes both, and with the exception of the inserts, the JessEm and Incra Mast-R-Lift II are the same. The Incra uses the metal inserts held in place with four rare earth magnets. The JessEm uses thicker plastic inserts that twist lock in place.

I prefer the Incra version because I use the CleanSweep inserts that have the extra slots for dust extraction. I don't think the JessEm version has anything similar to these. It makes a difference when cutting a rabbet and the dust extraction that is part of the fence can't be used.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

Do you blame the company or is it that too many customers now just accept lower standards

While I see the latter argument, it's the company - specifically its management - that controls quality. It's their management processes that lead to someone packing a stringer with a gouge in the powdercoat, rather than putting it to one side to be redone. It's the same processes that lead to a worktop with badly finished edgebanding being carefully packed and shipped, instead of going back to be dressed, and the crank handle for the lift being shipped without the sprue being properly trimmed and smoothed. The workers doing it are following the processes they've been given in the time allowed.

It's only a guess based on what got packed and shipped, but I'm reasonably confident that Incra does not have the sort of culture where packers feel they can reject stuff that isn't up to scratch. In a quality-led company they would have not just the authority, but also the responsibility to reject anything not up to standard.

 

[Peter Sefton]

Hi Sporky, my apologies for the miss spelt name, auto correct strikes again.

As a company we never want to leave a customer feeling disappointed, and the offer to help is still open if you wish to make contact. Incra have always supported us with any warranty claims.

If any of our customers have issues with any of the brands we supply we are the first point of contact and will swap out or exchange damaged components or offer a full refund if applicable.

Incra's quality is generally very good but has obviously fallen short on this occasion, challenges with home working, social distancing, factory shutdowns and people needing to undertake work of other colleagues to keep things moving along may have played their part. I cannot speak for Incra's production process but on this occasion it appears to have fallen short of what we expect.

Thanks MikeK, I also spin the bezel on my lifts to zero, sometimes they may become stiff, this is soon remedied with a drop of non oil based lubrication on the O ring which holds it onto the rotating shaft

I am currently preparing for my next routing course so I will only have limited time, but my team are available for any customer after sales assistance on the contact details in previous posts.

Thanks

Peter

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

I'm emailing now. Just a list of all the issues; we'll see what solutions are offered.