Marking gauge/mortise gauge woes ?

[barkwindjammer]

Some people are confident enough to go straight at a tenon with a saw, when I do it I always 'notch' the marked line for the saw cuts, so the next implement in my hand after the marking gauge is a chisel

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Some people are confident enough to go straight at a tenon with a saw, when I do it I always 'notch' the marked line for the saw cuts, so the next implement in my hand after the marking guage is a chisel

That's the 'recommended' method for super-clean tenon shoulders - mark out, then with a razor-sharp paring chisel run one cut across the workpiece with the chisel's side parallel to the workpiece, and the flat face perpendicular and facing away from the tenon, towards the 'clean' piece of the workpiece. Finally, twist the chisel round in your hand, and run another cut to take out a 'v' trench on the waste. The final trench should be about 1 mm deep, and very clean-cut on the shoulder-line. Then flip the workpiece over, and do the same for the other tenon shoulder.

For 'ordinary' tenons, you wouldn't bother - just saw to the line, and clean up any 'fuzz' from the cut after assembling the job.

By the way, don't forget the cutting gauge for cross-grain marking. They work best with a 'u'-shaped knife kept very sharp and polished. They can be set up to make stringings by cutting thin strips from a batten, or to deepen a marked line before running a rebate plane along it.

To fine adjust the old-type wooden gauges, set them 'there or thereabouts' with a steel rule, tighten the thumbscrew or wedge lightly, then check the setting carefully, and refine it by holding the stock and knocking either end of the stem on the bench until the setting is spot-on. Then tighten the thumbscrew or wedge, final check with the rule, and if all well, off you go. Far quicker to do than type!

 

[James-1986]

I cant think of a simpler way of using these tools, there is no room for error-it just works, which in the end is also not really a necessity when you think about it, I cant think of a single joint that requires a 'one shot' perfect scribed line using a marking guage.

Joining the dots is a good technique for neat marking out, but the dots are best joined up with a gauge.

Marking gauges are very accurate and more importantly give you repeated accuracy, I could mark out 100 half laps and they would all be identical. Plus I have a nice scribed line to put my chisel into or plane down to. You're not going to match the accuracy or speed of a gauge with a chisel, it would take forever to mark out a large tenon and it would be all over the place!

The important thing about the marking gauge is that if you try and scribe a deep line on the first pass it will follow the grain, the harder the timber the worse this will be. Just a light scratch at first then deepen the scribe with a few more passes, it only takes a few seconds.

You also need firm pressure on the stock, I don't find much difference between pulling and pushing.

 

[GazPal]

I find these work best

Mortise beaver ready for setting out

Great for marking, tenoning and waste disposal

Plus they're ecologically friendly :wink:

Not to be confused with the American version

------------

Light initial passes of the gauge, before committing with deeper passes within working lines to confirm markings. This helps minimise potentially unnecessary marks on finished surfaces and reduces problems when working with gnarly/wavy longitudinally grained timber.

 

[adzeman]

Those are indeed lovely Pete, but didn't you have to make them ?

I nearly missed this thread, its somthing I have never thought about when I wandered I thought it was doem to my loss of consentration.

Those gauges are really nice and being in the market for a knife marking gauge but after seeing yours Pete might have a go. Did you post a work in progress on them? Would be interested.

 

[Racers]

Hi, Adzeman

No WIP but I do have a photo of the parts.

Its a head with a hole drilled through and a tapering slot cut in it to match the wedge, a length of dowel (I turned mine) with a flat on.
Make the wedge to deep and plain it down until it fits and is still deep enough to stop the dowel from turning.
The pin is 3mm silver steel filed down to a knife shape (like in David Charlsworth's book) hardened and tempered and fitted to an undersized hole.

Pete

 

[James C]

I tried this with students at school and they sometimes struggle with the pin grain problem. We have tried the dots method but they as beginning woodworkers have definitely found the light passes with increasing pressure the easiest to master and get the most consistent results from.

We use marples pin gauges and mortise gauges.

 

[adzeman]

Thanks Pete very informative Next time at the timber yard will look out for scrap hardwood and will certainly give it a go.

 

[bugbear]

I tried this with students at school and they sometimes struggle with the pin grain problem. We have tried the dots method but they as beginning woodworkers have definitely found the light passes with increasing pressure the easiest to master and get the most consistent results from.

If it's good enough for beginners AND Jim Kingshott, I guess that covers everyone!

BugBEar

 

[Jelly]

:lol: Ok, I will give you the last word Jacob
A good old £5.75 + VAT British made 'J Marples' marking gauge is equal to a Lee Valley rollerflange !

More or less, they're both an index surface attached to a rod with a sharp thing on it...

In both tools accuracy is determined entirely by how well the user sets and checks the position of the sharp thing relative to the index surface, and how well they maintain consistent contact between the indexing surface and the reference face/edge of the workpiece.

My only marking woes are that my footprint marking gauge is sticking a bit at the minute, the "rod" as I termed it has swollen a little with my current workshop being unheated... I'm tempted to just periodically put it in the oven on a low heat to bring the MC back down, but taking a little material off with a plane might be a better long-term fix.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Try to dry it, lubricate it with some wax, maybe. Don't plane it - it'll be loose other times of the year.

 

[Jelly]

Try to dry it, lubricate it with some wax, maybe. Don't plane it - it'll be loose other times of the year.

I've waxed it nicely, but no luck, I'll try warming it at 70 degrees for a short while then leaving it indoors overnight.

 

[RogerBoyle]

Try to dry it, lubricate it with some wax, maybe. Don't plane it - it'll be loose other times of the year.

I've waxed it nicely, but no luck, I'll try warming it at 70 degrees for a short while then leaving it indoors overnight.

Just dont do it in a gas oven

 

[adzeman]

Just to let you know Pete took one of my marking gauges gave it a chisel point, works a treat thanks mate

 

[GazPal]

Try to dry it, lubricate it with some wax, maybe. Don't plane it - it'll be loose other times of the year.

I've waxed it nicely, but no luck, I'll try warming it at 70 degrees for a short while then leaving it indoors overnight.

Keep it indoors for a week or so and you should find it loosens up and begins to run smoothly again, but you may need to strip wax/finish from end grain surfaces so the timber can reach equilibrium. Swings in relative humidity levels are notorious for causing such problems, but you'd be surprised just how much difference a minimal shift in humidity can make.

If the problem persists, beware removing too much stock, as you could find the problem shifts from one extreme to the other. A very light shaving or two using a cabinet scraper (Read card scraper) or a few swipes using steel wool may be all it needs. :wink:

 

[Racers]

Just to let you know Pete took one of my marking gauges gave it a chisel point, works a treat thanks mate

Hi, Adzeman

No problem, its a David Charlsworth tip originally.


Pete

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Just to let you know Pete took one of my marking gauges gave it a chisel point, works a treat thanks mate

Hi, Adzeman

No problem, its a David Charlsworth tip originally.


Pete

I was taught it at school 45yrs ago.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Here is an aid to add to your cutting gauge.

One of my favourite gauges is the Kinshiro style. I have a wonderful mortice gauge that does double duty as a cutting gauge. I've built a few based on this one. Here is one ..

The knife is ground from a 3/16" HSS rod.

OK, that is all basic stuff.

When using a cutting gauge it is important to ensure that the knife is perfectly aligned - parallel - with the fence. If it is even slightly skew, the knife edge wil drag and cause tear out.

To get it parallel, grind a slot at the upper end of the rod. Use a screwdriver to turn it until it is cutting as you wish. There is a screw at the front to prevent any movement.

Link: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTo ... auges.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[bugbear]

When using a cutting gauge it is important to ensure that the knife is perfectly aligned - parallel - with the fence. If it is even slightly skew, the knife edge wil drag and cause tear out.

To get it parallel, grind a slot at the upper end of the rod. Use a screwdriver to turn it until it is cutting as you wish.

Derek

Ahem; that idea is uncredited, an oversight I'm sure.

BugBear

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Hi BB

Did you do that in your cutting gauge? If so, it must be my unconscious at play. My conscious mind did not recall. Quickly ... post a picture here for us (me) to see how you did this.

Regards from Perth

Derek