Makita benchtop thicknesser dust collection issue

[tibi]

Hello,

I have bought a Nilfisk shop vac and I wanted to connect it to my Makita benchtop thickness planer. I have ordered a separator too, but it will arrive later, so I connected the thickness planer directly to the vac. The vac is pretty strong, but I get a lot of shavings on the outfeed table, because between the wall of the thicknesser and the dust collector hood there is a small gap. It must be there for a purpose but a lot of debris falls down through this gap.

I get a lot of shavings in the vac bin, so the setup must be working.

This is the result of 5 passes of 50 mm thick beech edge. The hood is attached to the thickness planer as firmly and closely as possible.

Here are the pictures of the gap

What am I doing wrong?

Thank you.

 

[Oscar43634]

You're going to need a HVLP chip extractor; I ran into a similar issue recently, picked up a small 2nd hand one which helped massively.

 

[Inspector]

Oscar is correct. Assuming the port on the dust chute is 100mm from the picture, the machine is designed to have approximately 400CFM/680 cubic metres per hour flowing from it. Check the specs of your vacuum and you will see if has no where close to that amount of airflow, probably only a quarter as much. It is in effect restricting the airflow and that's why some of the chips are falling onto the table.

Pete

 

[tibi]

Oscar is correct. Assuming the port on the dust chute is 100mm from the picture, the machine is designed to have approximately 400CFM/680 cubic metres per hour flowing from it. Check the specs of your vacuum and you will see if has no where close to that amount of airflow, probably only a quarter as much. It is in effect restricting the airflow and that's why some of the chips are falling onto the table.

Pete

It is 76 mm. I was afraid that the suction might not be good enough, but I have seen some people using a shop vac with the exact same thickness planer without these issues. and I doubt their vac was 4x stronger.

 

[yetloh]

I'm sure the others are right but it's hard to see what the purpose of the gap might be. As an interim measure I would experiment with some thick flexible plastic and double sided tape to close the gap.

Jim

 

[Bingy man]

Your machine looks very similar to mine makita NB 2012 - the dust outlet is approx 63 mm and reducing it to your shop vac is at least adding to issues. I use a nv 750 numatic hoover which has a 100 mm outlet and the standard vac hose 35-45 mm . I use the smaller outlet connected to approx 62mm hose connected directly to the outlet of the makita. I get a small amount or chips /shavings but it’s minimal tbh as I tend to use it outside. With reference to your gaps it must be due to the design as mine is the same - maybe something to do with air relief. Might be worth sealing gaps with insulation tape to see if that helps or makes it worse. To echo other comments tho your shop vac is probably the route cause.

 

[Bingy man]

Your machine looks very similar to mine makita NB 2012 - the dust outlet is approx 63 mm and reducing it to your shop vac is at least adding to issues. I use a nv 750 numatic hoover which has a 100 mm outlet and the standard vac hose 35-45 mm . I use the smaller outlet connected to approx 62mm hose connected directly to the outlet of the makita. I get a small amount or chips /shavings but it’s minimal tbh as I tend to use it outside. With reference to your gaps it must be due to the design as mine is the same - maybe something to do with air relief. Might be worth sealing gaps with insulation tape to see if that helps or makes it worse. To echo other comments tho your shop vac is probably the route cause.

Nb I only take off 0.5 mm per pass

 

[tibi]

Well, without reading the comments, I went to the shop and used a painting masking tape to cover the gap. And the amount of chips on the outfeed table has been reduced by 95%. I have no clue if this will have an adverse effect on the performance or longevity of the machine. If other brands do not have this gap on the hood, then the conclusion is that Makita engineers are being paid bonuses for innovations and the one responsible for this machine wanted to make a quick buck, so he added the gap which he reasoned with some advanced airflow calculations

I will also buy a reduction from 75 mm to 40 mm to make the transition smoother (now I have just a pipe cover with a hole for vac adapter). Some debris is collecting around it, but the hood does not clog.

 

[Bingy man]

It comes down to what you are producing-shavings chips or fine dust . A lot of my reductions especially adapting the cyclone’s were accomplished by using automotive silicone engine hoses , try to avoid steps within the hose as it can create an edge for material to collect and can eventually create a blockage.
The bag in your vac will fill quickly which in itself will create a blockage in the vac hose . When you get your seperator/ cyclone drop a post on here or ( why use a cyclone) to let us know how you get on .

 

[hugov]

I have what looks to be the same thicknesser as you (Makita 2012NB) and use it with a vacuum-type extractor (not a proper HVLP chip extractor) – specifically one of these (it's a generic one, there are loads of what seems to be the same design under different brands). I do however use a 2.5"/63mm hose and a smooth adapter to the 4"/102mm inlet on the vacuum. I get some chips on the outfeed, but almost exclusively when the extractor is full or clogged, and I use their presence as my reminder to empty it

My guess (as an engineer) is that gap is designed to create airflow to pick up and carry the chips down into the hose, and probably designed with the assumption of quite a bit more airflow than you're giving it. It might also be required for proper cooling of the motor. I would suggest trying to fix the airflow instead of taping up the gap. Even using a shorter, wider hose with the same vac will make a surprisingly big difference. Unless you're only using the thicknesser for very small jobs, you're going to end up emptying a shopvac so often it'll drive you mad and spur you into getting/making something better.

 

[tibi]

I have what looks to be the same thicknesser as you (Makita 2012NB) and use it with a vacuum-type extractor (not a proper HVLP chip extractor) – specifically one of these (it's a generic one, there are loads of what seems to be the same design under different brands). I do however use a 2.5"/63mm hose and a smooth adapter to the 4"/102mm inlet on the vacuum. I get some chips on the outfeed, but almost exclusively when the extractor is full or clogged, and I use their presence as my reminder to empty it

My guess (as an engineer) is that gap is designed to create airflow to pick up and carry the chips down into the hose, and probably designed with the assumption of quite a bit more airflow than you're giving it. It might also be required for proper cooling of the motor. I would suggest trying to fix the airflow instead of taping up the gap. Even using a shorter, wider hose with the same vac will make a surprisingly big difference. Unless you're only using the thicknesser for very small jobs, you're going to end up emptying a shop vac so often it'll drive you mad and spur you into getting/making something better.

Thanks for the advice. What I can try with the current setup is to use a shorter 80 mm hose and reduce it just before it enters the vac. A bigger diameter will make a slower velocity, so I am curious to see how this will work.

I need to use thicknesser maybe once or twice a month, and I do not want to buy another machine, i.e. HVLP chip extractor just for this purpose, as I am very space limited.

 

[tibi]

One additional info. my shop vac has 270m3/h airflow, or 4500 l/min.

 

[Orraloon]

Shop vacs seldom are up to it when attached to a planer. Also the reduction in pipe size will just not shift the volume of shavings. They are also longish shavings and tend to clog small diameter pipes. I would be against closing air gaps as the airflow also serves to cool the planer motor.
My old wet and dry vac has a 62mm pipe and connection but even that was not able to keep up to the thicknesser planing a wide board so I used to use it outside and sweep up afterwards. It prompted me to eventually get a HVLP extractor with 100mm pipe.
Regards
John

 

[loftyhermes]

I have a small shed, no room for a big extractor, so use my Makita outside and then sweep up when finished.

 

[MikeJhn]

As others have said an HVLP chip extractor will get over all the problems, some have put them externally to their workshop in a purpose made enclosure may be worth thinking about.

 

[tibi]

I have tried 80mm hose (as short as possible) from the hood and reduced to 50 mm just at the entrance to the vac, but it help like 10%. As my shop is very small and extractor is almost as big as a bandsaw that I dealt with in another thread, I would use the shop vac and sweep the outfeed table after 5-10 passes (with the machine turned off)

 

[tibi]

I have planed all edges of my board at the height 120 mm, where the problem was present. When I lowered the height to 40 mm and planed 120 mm wide boards then it was much, much better without taping the gap or doing anything else. I have still used the 80 mm hose.

 

[Bingy man]

I have planed all edges of my board at the height 120 mm, where the problem was present. When I lowered the height to 40 mm and planed 120 mm wide boards then it was much, much better without taping the gap or doing anything else. I have still used the 80 mm hose.

Planed several small strips of timber today - the remaining leftovers from some reclaimed larch fence panels and some rough sawn sapele over a couple of hours or more , used my numatic 750 with a 63 mm hose and planed approx 20 strips . Admittedly they were narrow 15mm x15 mm up to 25 mm square but the planer tables remained clear of chips etc . I did notice a few chips were being thrown forward onto the slabs and the pictures show the total amount over the 2 + hours of use. My mitre saw produces far more than this .i checked the bag in the numatic just out of interest and it’s about a 3 rd full but it’s been used on and off since purchasing approx 3 years ago and to date has not been changed.

 

[tibi]

Planed several small strips of timber today - the remaining leftovers from some reclaimed larch fence panels and some rough sawn sapele over a couple of hours or more , used my numatic 750 with a 63 mm hose and planed approx 20 strips . Admittedly they were narrow 15mm x15 mm up to 25 mm square but the planer tables remained clear of chips etc . I did notice a few chips were being thrown forward onto the slabs and the pictures show the total amount over the 2 + hours of use. My mitre saw produces far more than this .i checked the bag in the numatic just out of interest and it’s about a 3 rd full but it’s been used on and off since purchasing approx 3 years ago and to date has not been changed.

Very nice setup. Do your neighbors complain about the noise if you plane outside for a few hours?

I am now going to build my own dust separator, as I ordered 3 of them and I got a reply that none of them are unfortunately available.

 

[Inspector]

tiki I take it you are aware of Bill Pentz's site has a spreadsheet that draws up the flat pattern for a cyclone.
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/cyclone_plan.php
Pete