Making sash windows

[Oryxdesign]

Hi all, please would someone recommend me a book on making sash windows. Thank you in advance Simon

 

[opener]

Modern Practical Joinery by George Ellis. It's about 100 years old which in this case is an advantage as it doesn't include modern shortcuts (i.e. poor design) although that also means double-glazing not included either.
Available from Amazon.
Cheers
Malcolm

 

[Harbo]

On "Grand Designs" last week they used some high tech double glazed units which were very thin and fitted sash type windows.
It got around the Planners requirements OK.

Rod

 

[BradNaylor]

On "Grand Designs" last week they used some high tech double glazed units which were very thin and fitted sash type windows.
It got around the Planners requirements OK.

Rod

I saw that. The double glazed units were no thicker than a single pane of glass.

Even so I don't suppose Mr Grimsdale would approve!

Dan

 

[Oryxdesign]

I'm going to use those double glazed units, I think the program was a bit miss leading as they are actually made up as 444. 4mm glass outside 4mm gas 4mm glass inside. It's not the kind of work I do but this is for me and I'm too tight to pay someone else to do it for me.
Thanks for your suggestions.
Simon

 

[CNC Paul]

Simon,

Just a thought :idea:

One thing you might need to check is the building in Grand Design was classed as Industrial, so maybe it might have different regulations for insulation compared to residential.


Paul

 

[bigjoe]

Hi Simon,
Ive worked with glass and windows for a long time (too long in fact :shock: ) and when we compared small bar units ie 4-4-4 or 4-6-4 units they gave very little thermal increase or accoustic advantage,if you are limited in the rebeate clearance then you are far better using 6.4mm laminated glass as the thermal values are comparable with small bar units and accoustically it damps noise far better (and good security also ,Obviously you would have to allow for weight but shouldnt be that far off units weighwise.

Kind regards

Joe

 

[Oryxdesign]

Thanks Joe, I'll look into that for sure, was your comparison with this type of unit
http://www.slimliteglass.co.uk/slimlite ... azing.html
Simon

 

[bigjoe]

Hi Simon,
yep that was the stuff,we looked at plain clear units,low-e coated units and also toughened units all argon filled and the Laminated was comparable until you increased the cavity significantly,which is'nt always viable with sashes.

If i can be of anymore help just ask.

Regards

Joe

 

[Oryxdesign]

Thank you Joe, that's useful info. I haven't got much room to play with as I need to keep the original boxes and the overall sash is only 33mm thick.
Thanks again Simon

 

[ProShop]

..

 

[bigjoe]

I hope the door and sidelight units are to british standards Proshop :wink: ...that sounds like a useful book,ill try and get a copy.

Joe

 

[ProShop]

..

 

[Steve Maskery]

I'm not a window expert, but I have made my own and been very happy with the results. I don't think that this will be of interest to you, but it may be to anyone doing a trawl later.

There is a very good treatise on the TRADAwebsite. There is no point me putting in a URL as you have to be registered, but registration is free. Search for a paper by a chap called Hislop. He gives lots of information about how windows are best constructed and how they tackle the job in different parts of Europe where they have lived with much more severe winters than ours for generations.

It's well worth a read.

S

 

[SBJ]

Hey Oryx, I'm just going through the same process and in front of me I have Porters Carpentry and Joinery no3, Mitchells Carpentry and Joinery and Foads Purpose made joinery. The best one is definately Porter, but the others have merit too.

I've been looking at the Slimlite glass and it seems to offer a practical solution to elegant sliding sash (or non sliding for that matter!) windows. The best thing about them for me is the narrowness of the seal, which allows for a 7mm rebate in your profiles, where as a standard 4-16-4 unit has a seal that seems to be typically 15mm. So these units could possibly be retro fitted into existing sashes.

The only thing to be wary of, you need the 5mm gap units to conform to current spec for new build, if you are making "repairs" or retrofitting the 4mm gap units should be ok.


rgds


SBJ

 

[Oryxdesign]

Steve I think it should be .co.uk. There is loads of info on there that I trawling through now, thank you for the heads up.
OBJ I've just ordered that book I'll let you know how I go, are you starting to make yet or still planning?

 

[Steve Maskery]

Ah,yes, sorry. Edited.
Ta
S

 

[RogerS]

.....
I've never had a problem with any building regs for this type of thin unit, why some people think you can't fit anything other than 4-16-4 or similar I'll never understand as all the local authorities I've ever dealt with have taken the same view as me, ie thin can be just as good, if not better.

........

The Building Reg rules are pretty clear in terms of expected U-values from windows and the tables do show that 4-16-4 will give a better u-value then 4-6-4 and if you're using normal glass (ie not k glass) and air in between then 4-6-4 doesn't meet the requirements (if you follow the letter of the law).

And so if one was replacing a complete window and frame (as opposed to a 'repair) then Building Control could dig their heels in...but in reality they are a lot more pragmatic...and in any event, who's to know?

It gets more complicated if you're doing work under a Building Control notice since that will highlight what you are doing. But again, they do seem pragmatic. In my case when I refurbished the cottage I reasoned that because I was sticking in a huge amount of insulation and so reducing the heatloss compared with the property when bought that they could waive the u-values on the windows and let me use 4-6-4 with k glass and air which they agreed to. They did try and 'con' me (if that's not too strong a word) into making sure that the openers were such that they met the fire egress requirements but I pointed out that that regulation only applied to new builds.

Guess it also depends on the size of the windows as to how much heat loss there will be.

And I also came across a different interpretation of heatloss in the regs based on the total energy comsumption that took into account heat gain through the windows, whether the boiler was a combi etc.

So in a rather roundabout way, I guess what I'm really saying is that 'it depends'.

And don't get me started on trickle-vents - mandatory or not!

 

[RogerS]

.......The best thing about them for me is the narrowness of the seal, which allows for a 7mm rebate in your profiles, where as a standard 4-16-4 unit has a seal that seems to be typically 15mm. .......

That is excellent news! I'm fed up looking at those crappy off-the-shelf windows that have about as much design finesse as a rutting elephant and more wood than glass - especially on small glazed units.

 

[RogerS]

.......The best thing about them for me is the narrowness of the seal, which allows for a 7mm rebate in your profiles, where as a standard 4-16-4 unit has a seal that seems to be typically 15mm. .......

That is excellent news! I'm fed up looking at those crappy off-the-shelf windows that have about as much design finesse as a rutting elephant and more wood than glass - especially on small glazed units.

Just on a slight digression, having almost come to the end of the refurb project I had to smile when I watched the last Grand Designs and Kevin said 'and the metal has to follow the wall which is out of whack by as much as 20cm'.....oh my gosh..as much as that?...aren't they the lucky ones...

...and he then went on to say 'and every glass unit is a different size'. Duh? So? :wink: